Having Marty on the statement is, I think, a shot across the bow to David and Nick that they're being allowed to turn it around, but they better succeed.
NYCFC Season Discussion 2023: We Know What We Are, But Not What We May Be
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Having Marty on the statement is, I think, a shot across the bow to David and Nick that they're being allowed to turn it around, but they better succeed.
which is fine tbh, assuming that ownership does give the resources to turn it around as they claim
we'll know for sure by what they do in the off season. personally, i think we need a stronger #9, but there are no DP spots open so attracting younger talent may be difficult unless we have a u-22 spot we can use on him (i don't know). bakrar has good potential but i also think he needs to learn from a more experienced #9.
Maybe. Or it could be a message of full-throated support. What many fans have perceived as flailing or failure may have been nothing of the kind. I myself am now convinced we've executed a purposeful transition as part of a wider long-term strategy.
I'm sure the organization hoped and expected to make the playoffs in the process, and we almost did. But for this season at least, that was a secondary consideration. It won't be next year, although to be honest, I don't think Nick or David Lee are going to be on a short leash, either.
I don't think they're punting until the new stadium, personally. That's a long time. This team has put a terrific roster together every year from 2016-2022. Won MLS Cup less than two years ago. Made a conference final less than a year ago. What is the evidence that they are punting? That they dumped a bunch of aging players off the roster in a salary capped league? Every team in every sport with a salary cap has to do that. Look no further than the NHL if you want some glaring examples.
In its last 8 MLS games this season, NYCFC had 15 points. That's a 34-game pace of 63.75 points. If we scored 64 points this season, we would have finished 2nd in the East. This roster still needs to be improved, but they made a pretty dramatic improvement during the summer window. Had we gotten into the playoffs, we wouldn't have been an easy out.
They did invest into the roster this summer. There is, frankly, no evidence they won't continue to do so. Maybe they're not bringing in global superstars anymore, but they clearly have a plan in place, and their success rate on signings is abnormally high. Give Bakrar and Julian a full offseason/preseason with the group, plus bring in another No. 9 and I think this team is going to cook. Defense is still terrific, defensive midfield is still terrific. We just need some better offensive options and we're going to be fine. This roster is closer than most people think to being top of the table.
I never said they were. I said we were executing a long-term strategy -- project is the word a lot of people like to use, but I think it actually goes deeper than that.
I also think it's a good thing. Leveraging the CFG network and scouting for young talent only makes sense given the restrictions of operating in MLS. The other way to go is to build a robust academy system, like the Union has done (something else which I suspect is in the works -- no reason to not do both).
It's all about catching players on the way up and getting the most bang for the buck, rather than catching them on the way down and paying for their past performance for someone else.
Anyway, you're right: We saw the potential in this squad coming down the stretch. We won't have another disappointment in 2024. We took our lumps this season and we're going to be much more competitive next year, right off the kick. And I think that's what Edelman was signaling.
I don't think it's even that long-term. As you said, I think we're going to contend next year even if this organization makes no roster moves. I think they were hoping for better results this year; they were hoping Talles would be able to score 10-15 goals. When that didn't happen, there was no back-up plan.
I think they thought they'd be good this year because they thought Talles would take the step Taty did. When that didn't happen, that was the mistake that exacerbated all the other mistakes.
I hope you are correct about commitment. It will be a lot more clear during the off season and the upcoming season. But as for contending without making roster moves, this team would not make the playoffs again even in a league in which all but the worse do. Hopefully that won’t be put to the test!
The statement when compared to the team's actions this season rings hollow to me. Nothing about how they handled replacing Taty indicates that this is true: "At NYCFC, our goal each season is to not only make the playoffs but to be in a position to compete for trophies at every opportunity."
Taty played his last NYCFC game on 7/23/2022, clearly, Magno was the replacement plan which is a reasonable approach but it didn't work and they didn't act with any kind of urgency when it was clearly not working. The primary transfer window for the 2023 season closed on April 24. Between Taty's last game and a month before the close of the first window, Magno played 20 games and scored 4 goals. That is plenty of evidence any organization truly trying to "compete for trophies at every opportunity" should need to spend the last month of the transfer window going out and at a minimum trying to get a solid backup plan in place.
The secondary transfer window opened on July 5 at which point it was abundantly clear the team needed a true number 9, NYCFC had league cup games starting on July 23rd and 12 regular season games left. Other teams in the league had their signings lined up and got new players on the field training with their teams almost immediately. NYCFC didn't sign Bakrar until July 11th and he wasn't ready to start until 7/26. Fernandez, the replacement signing for our leading goal scorer Perera wasn't signed until 8/1, and didn't appear until 8/20. So either they are full of it when they say "Our goal each season is to not only make the playoffs but to be in a position to compete for trophies at every opportunity." or they truly do have that goal each season and there are massive systemic issues around their ability to anticipate and adapt in a timely manner to things like Magno not working out at striker as planned.
If you need to do a slow rebuild fine, it's a capped league, these things happen but at least be honest about it. Say something like at NYCFC our goal is always to work towards building a roster to compete for trophies and we feel the work we did this season has been part of building the foundation for that moving forward. Don't tell me "our goal each season is to not only make the playoffs but to be in a position to compete for trophies at every opportunity." when you fielded a half-complete roster for nearly the entire year.
Taty played his last NYCFC game on 7/23/2022, clearly, Magno was the replacement plan which is a reasonable approach but it didn't work and they didn't act with any kind of urgency when it was clearly not working. The primary transfer window for the 2023 season closed on April 24. Between Taty's last game and a month before the close of the first window, Magno played 20 games and scored 4 goals. That is plenty of evidence any organization truly trying to "compete for trophies at every opportunity" should need to spend the last month of the transfer window going out and at a minimum trying to get a solid backup plan in place.
The secondary transfer window opened on July 5 at which point it was abundantly clear the team needed a true number 9, NYCFC had league cup games starting on July 23rd and 12 regular season games left. Other teams in the league had their signings lined up and got new players on the field training with their teams almost immediately. NYCFC didn't sign Bakrar until July 11th and he wasn't ready to start until 7/26. Fernandez, the replacement signing for our leading goal scorer Perera wasn't signed until 8/1, and didn't appear until 8/20. So either they are full of it when they say "Our goal each season is to not only make the playoffs but to be in a position to compete for trophies at every opportunity." or they truly do have that goal each season and there are massive systemic issues around their ability to anticipate and adapt in a timely manner to things like Magno not working out at striker as planned.
If you need to do a slow rebuild fine, it's a capped league, these things happen but at least be honest about it. Say something like at NYCFC our goal is always to work towards building a roster to compete for trophies and we feel the work we did this season has been part of building the foundation for that moving forward. Don't tell me "our goal each season is to not only make the playoffs but to be in a position to compete for trophies at every opportunity." when you fielded a half-complete roster for nearly the entire year.
If you watch the Win! documentary, it clearly showed that Kreis wanted a South American DP attacking player, but then Lampard got injured so they had to sign Pirlo. We finished with 37 points in 8th place (12 points below the playoff line). 6 of 10 teams made the playoffs, that's 60%. Kreis was let go.
Similarly story this season, we didn't have the players we wanted at the time we needed them, injuries happened along the way. We finished with 41 points in 11th place (2 points below the playoff line). 9 of 15 teams made the playoffs, that's 60%. Cushing is being retained.
Player personnel wasn't an excuse then and it shouldn't be now.
If they're saying the focus is on 2024, what does that mean for 2023? What does that say going forward, expectations are lowered?
Similarly story this season, we didn't have the players we wanted at the time we needed them, injuries happened along the way. We finished with 41 points in 11th place (2 points below the playoff line). 9 of 15 teams made the playoffs, that's 60%. Cushing is being retained.
Player personnel wasn't an excuse then and it shouldn't be now.
If they're saying the focus is on 2024, what does that mean for 2023? What does that say going forward, expectations are lowered?
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I don't disagree that there is a decent case to be made that Cushing should be gone but people acting like Kries was dumped solely for missing the playoffs have either forgotten what that year was like or are way oversimplifying it to support their argument. Yes, the statement Kries was let go for missing the playoffs but he missed the playoffs while:
1. Openly disagreeing with CFG personnel moves (see your Pirlo example)
2. Stubbronly relying on his guys even though most were well past their prime and in many cases we had better young guys sitting on the bench (remember "Chris Wingert is the type of player you can build around")
3. Having visibly heated disagreements on the sidelines with Villa and others.
Kries has never had success outside of coaching RSL where he had earned the respect of his teammates as a player before becoming a coach. All his stops as a head coach post-NYCFC have gone poorly. The results would strongly suggest that Kries is not a good head coach and CFG was quick to identify this.
I'm not sure I'd even call it a mistake. More like an assumption, or maybe a hope, which wasn't particularly unreasonable -- plenty of supporters were touting Talles Magno as a striker before it was tried -- and just didn't work out.
That being said, I do think they stuck with the experiment for far too long after it became obvious it wasn't going to work. But there's an argument to be made it was out of necessity rather than stubbornness.
Anyway, I think what we've done this year is institute a new model of roster development and management. To get there, we had to suffer a bit, especially over the spring and summer. Short term pain, long term gain. But we made it through.
And we damn near made the playoffs anyway. Just think of the matches where we conceded late and either lost or fell to a draw. That's the mark of a young, inexperienced, but talented team.
As a Gooner, I know the story all too well. A couple years ago Arsenal's fan base was calling for Arteta's head. Edu Gaspar's, too. On a scale of one to 10, the frustration level was at eleventy billion. But Mikel and Edu just kept saying, "Trust the process" and went ahead with their business. All of a sudden, it was the next season and lo and behold, the Gunners were at the top of the table and contending for a Premier League title.
That's where we are: At the trust the process stage.
If they are intentionally in trust the-process mode they shouldn't be sending out end-of-the-year statements with lines like this: "At NYCFC, our goal each season is to not only make the playoffs but to be in a position to compete for trophies at every opportunity."
That's the goal. In fact, that's the goal of every team. And I think the squad we were featuring by the end of the season certainly qualified as competitive, at least on a game-by-game basis. (I don't think it was Cup-caliber, but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day.)
Before that, maybe not so much. But we've gone over a lot of the reason why already, so I won't repeat myself, or what others have said.
I will say this, though: I'm excited for next season, and the seasons after that which, God willing, I hope to be around for. Like everyone else, I'm looking in from the outside. But I think I see what the organization was up to. If it works, our Pigeons are going to be warhawks, especially at home, and doubly especially once our park opens.
By the way, I came across this passage in a post-derby Guardian article on Manchester United:
I truly wonder how much of this ethos is in our organizational DNA.
I must admit, for the longest time I thought we were an independent operation with a financial relationship to City Football Group. From an executive standpoint, I always assumed they weren't very deeply involved and left us to work with MLS without much input from overseas. Basically, treating us like the single-entity franchise we are rather than an autonomous club.
Now, I'm not so sure.
I truly wonder how much of this ethos is in our organizational DNA.
I must admit, for the longest time I thought we were an independent operation with a financial relationship to City Football Group. From an executive standpoint, I always assumed they weren't very deeply involved and left us to work with MLS without much input from overseas. Basically, treating us like the single-entity franchise we are rather than an autonomous club.
Now, I'm not so sure.
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