I mean I hope so.
There's some unresolved shit in Rey's flashbacks that would at least put her in contact with the Kylo during her early childhood.
STAR WARS VIII (spoilers!!!)
- Thread starter adam
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There's some unresolved shit in Rey's flashbacks that would at least put her in contact with the Kylo during her early childhood.
It makes the most sense - why would she have been left with a junker like Unkar Plutt - it echos Anakin and Shmi with Watto
I can understand wanting more backstory on Snoke but why do people want the same old narrative? Kylo killing him and taking over as supreme leader was a great twist, finding out that Rey's parents are nobodies after all the buildup was a great twist.
Finding out Rey’s parents were not from Jedi bloodline wasn’t really a twist, it was a let down.
A twist would have been that her parents were Han and Leia or obi wan and god knows who else. Or even if she was born from nothing like Anakin. Those would have been far more interesting than just no-one in particular.
CP_Scouse
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Saw it with my girlfriend last night. Personally i thinknit ruined the franchise.
The force doesnt make people invincible or fly. Im sorry but Senator Organa shouldve died.
The force cant make weird skypelike calls telepathically. Nor can it make people appear in hologram form; thas why in the jedi order and republic the jedi council needed the projections to do business.
The movie took too much from irl politics. A purple haired hipster politician, leading a military into failure. The whole thing about Rose not liking the arms dealers and capitalism and is an enviornmentalist. The hacker from jail represented the 4chan demographic; where hes an outsider and particularly affiliated with anyone. And in the end with the whole "spark of the rebellion" sounds jjst like post revolution soviet diction. Made me sick
The force doesnt make people invincible or fly. Im sorry but Senator Organa shouldve died.
The force cant make weird skypelike calls telepathically. Nor can it make people appear in hologram form; thas why in the jedi order and republic the jedi council needed the projections to do business.
The movie took too much from irl politics. A purple haired hipster politician, leading a military into failure. The whole thing about Rose not liking the arms dealers and capitalism and is an enviornmentalist. The hacker from jail represented the 4chan demographic; where hes an outsider and particularly affiliated with anyone. And in the end with the whole "spark of the rebellion" sounds jjst like post revolution soviet diction. Made me sick
The story line was gravely left wanting, littered with forced comic relief moments, and the B-plot was pointless, but any series that relies on Adam Driver as a lead is a failure. His role should have been a no-name new actor rather than a guy made infamous for uncomfortable sex scenes with Lena Dunham.
and a huge disappointment that the planet they fled to wasn't Hoth, even though it looked eerily like it at first. That would have been a fantastic detail going full circle for the 2nd film in the trilogy (like Empire Strikes Back), and snow speeders would've been more interesting than impotent slalom-skiing salt speeders.
and a huge disappointment that the planet they fled to wasn't Hoth, even though it looked eerily like it at first. That would have been a fantastic detail going full circle for the 2nd film in the trilogy (like Empire Strikes Back), and snow speeders would've been more interesting than impotent slalom-skiing salt speeders.
I'll give you the point about the forced comic relief - I do think Star Wars inherently needs comedy, but this was a little over the top for my taste.
However, the B-plot wasn't pointless at all - it added to the theme of failure, added depth to the war by showing those profiting from both sides, and laid the framework for the ending that shows how the next generation can be inspired to fight for what they believe in - to be something more - just because a sub-plot, if removed, doesn't change the main plot doesn't make it pointless
I disagree about going to yet another ice planet - the Force Awakens was safe and their planetary diversity was piss-poor (desert, forest, snow) - adding a visually stimulating salt planet in Episode VIII was an excellent choice - much like the planet in the opening of Rogue One with black sand
I just think we’ll have to disagree on the B-plot worth to the movie.
I’m not sure what was so visually stimulating about the salt planet other than the red salt was an Easter egg of the fact that Luke wasn’t actually physically there since he never disturbed the ground. Other than that, it was visual CGI masturbation. But my original point about wanting it to be Hoth was because this abandoned Rebel base was nothing more than a carbon copy of Hoth with the barren landscape, shield door (although vertical and not horizontal), trenches, and fixed turrets. It was as if the Rebels had a Realestate Developer with a secret base kit of parts that just happened to be exactly like Hoth. It just seemed forced (not trying to be tongue in cheek with that) and would have made more sense for the Resistance to have made a last ditch run to a previously overrun/abandoned base (Hoth) that wouldn’t have raised suspicions to go back to.
agree to disagree on the B-plot
you make a fair point about going back to Hoth - I forget, did they say the salt planet (Crait) was still a secret? as in the Empire/First Order still didn't know about it?
I think they did say it was a secret, right before landing on it. Was an unknown/unmapped location that went under the Empire's radar. Was a secret planet base used for that reason, to help hide out rebel forces in a worst case scenario.
Finally catching up after avoiding this thread until last night.
First off, I may have fallen asleep for a few minutes about 1/3 of the way in, but if so that was due more to released tension after a stressful week at work.
Second, I liked the movie well enough until I got really pissed off by some of what I learned here. For the most part, I liked the overall direction while being somewhere between annoyed and bemused about the little dumb things people have pointed out like the whole Leia survival incident.
But my biggest beef with the last 2 sequels is how the whole backstory and politics doesn't cohere. This has nothing to do with analogies or parallels to real world politics. I just don't think it holds up on its own. The 6 Lucas films had flaws here. Lots of stuff didn't hold up to close scrutiny. But he at least showed he cared about it and had a consistent, if imperfect, take on things.
The 2 new films just throw random shit around with tons of gaps and inconsistencies and stuff that just doesn't make sense. We jump into Force Awakens and the empire is gone, the Senate is gone, and there's this First Order with the mysterious Snoke and he and Kylo are kind of a Sith pair though that's not clear. How do they govern the galaxy? It's not even hinted at. Is everyone who isn't in power basically a slave? Is it more like the Alliance in Firefly, where folks are "free" to engage in commerce and daily living but within limited bounds and subject to constant surveillance and quiet terror? Eh. Who knows. They have these giant Nazi like rallies but no civilians are there. Who is the front presented to the people? The emperor was, but he's gone. Snoke? Who the hell is he? And he's wicked ugly. It's really like the writers said "what is the barest minimum we can present to establish an evil totalitarian government", then cut it by 20%. You don't have to get into the weeds of mundane practicalities and stuff. Again, just as an example, Firefly never did, but the Alliance made sense. You could understand it, and if you wanted to explain how the Alliance worked and governed to someone you could make stuff up to fill in the gaps they left and be reasonably certain what you made up was consistent with the unstated parts of the backstory. But we had no clue about the backstory to the First Order.
Then there's the Resistance which seems to have a fair amount of logistical and materiel support from somewhere even though there is not even a remnant of the Senate left or any independent governments or civil structure that seems capable of providing it. And what do they stand for, except being anti-First Order? I mean, sure, that's a good start, but there is never any sense of what they want to create, support or reinstate. The Senate served that function in the original 6, even if the Senate was a pathetic organization.
But I could forgive all that in Force Awakens figuring we'd get it as we went along, and yet in this movie -- if anything -- they doubled down on "Backstory? You want a coherent universe? Fuck you!" Who is Snoke? Fuck you. What is the First Order and how do they govern or maintain order? Fuck you. Now they don't even have any planetary presence anywhere. Their entire governing leadership consists of Snoke, Hux and Kylo and now they live entirely in space. There is no capital city or planet. No bureaucracy. No Big Brother or Dear Leader. There is no government. There is only a space navy which they call an army because fuck you. They spend 100% of their time -- all of them -- chasing down a dwindling band of troublemakers. How do they pay for this? Fuck you. There's an entire planet of the wealthiest people in the galaxy who spend all their time gambling, and we're told they make all their money selling weapons to both sides because someone with a very special worldview wants to make one semi-salient point that war-profiteering is bad. Like that's a fresh take. But how does the First Order pay them? Fuck you. Even harder, how does the Resistance pay them? Fuck you more. If constant war is how they maintain their decadent lifestyle, why are they blithely letting the First Order move forward to utterly destroy the Resistance which would put a crimp in their entire business model? Fuck you.
Look. War destroys wealth. It does not create it. Individuals can profit from it but its overall net record on wealth is negative. Always and everywhere. The original six movies showed us a complete universe where wealth was created and commerce happened and you could imagine how the Senate and Empire taxed them and it could make sense. In contrast, here, we are told that literally every rich person made their wealth through arms dealing. That's fucking impossible. Someone has to create the wealth for the military to take and use to build its stuff and feed its troops.
But hey, I can ride along for a good story and I like Star Wars so I'm suspending disbelief and all that, until I come here and find out that the director hates backstories where characters are actually connected to stuff from the past so all this was a conscious choice.
Fuck you Rian Johnson. Snoke didn't have to be Palpatine, or Darth [take your pick] or anyone we knew. But he had to be somebody with a plausible path to controlling vast amounts of people and supplies. Instead we get Fuck you.
First off, I may have fallen asleep for a few minutes about 1/3 of the way in, but if so that was due more to released tension after a stressful week at work.
Second, I liked the movie well enough until I got really pissed off by some of what I learned here. For the most part, I liked the overall direction while being somewhere between annoyed and bemused about the little dumb things people have pointed out like the whole Leia survival incident.
But my biggest beef with the last 2 sequels is how the whole backstory and politics doesn't cohere. This has nothing to do with analogies or parallels to real world politics. I just don't think it holds up on its own. The 6 Lucas films had flaws here. Lots of stuff didn't hold up to close scrutiny. But he at least showed he cared about it and had a consistent, if imperfect, take on things.
The 2 new films just throw random shit around with tons of gaps and inconsistencies and stuff that just doesn't make sense. We jump into Force Awakens and the empire is gone, the Senate is gone, and there's this First Order with the mysterious Snoke and he and Kylo are kind of a Sith pair though that's not clear. How do they govern the galaxy? It's not even hinted at. Is everyone who isn't in power basically a slave? Is it more like the Alliance in Firefly, where folks are "free" to engage in commerce and daily living but within limited bounds and subject to constant surveillance and quiet terror? Eh. Who knows. They have these giant Nazi like rallies but no civilians are there. Who is the front presented to the people? The emperor was, but he's gone. Snoke? Who the hell is he? And he's wicked ugly. It's really like the writers said "what is the barest minimum we can present to establish an evil totalitarian government", then cut it by 20%. You don't have to get into the weeds of mundane practicalities and stuff. Again, just as an example, Firefly never did, but the Alliance made sense. You could understand it, and if you wanted to explain how the Alliance worked and governed to someone you could make stuff up to fill in the gaps they left and be reasonably certain what you made up was consistent with the unstated parts of the backstory. But we had no clue about the backstory to the First Order.
Then there's the Resistance which seems to have a fair amount of logistical and materiel support from somewhere even though there is not even a remnant of the Senate left or any independent governments or civil structure that seems capable of providing it. And what do they stand for, except being anti-First Order? I mean, sure, that's a good start, but there is never any sense of what they want to create, support or reinstate. The Senate served that function in the original 6, even if the Senate was a pathetic organization.
But I could forgive all that in Force Awakens figuring we'd get it as we went along, and yet in this movie -- if anything -- they doubled down on "Backstory? You want a coherent universe? Fuck you!" Who is Snoke? Fuck you. What is the First Order and how do they govern or maintain order? Fuck you. Now they don't even have any planetary presence anywhere. Their entire governing leadership consists of Snoke, Hux and Kylo and now they live entirely in space. There is no capital city or planet. No bureaucracy. No Big Brother or Dear Leader. There is no government. There is only a space navy which they call an army because fuck you. They spend 100% of their time -- all of them -- chasing down a dwindling band of troublemakers. How do they pay for this? Fuck you. There's an entire planet of the wealthiest people in the galaxy who spend all their time gambling, and we're told they make all their money selling weapons to both sides because someone with a very special worldview wants to make one semi-salient point that war-profiteering is bad. Like that's a fresh take. But how does the First Order pay them? Fuck you. Even harder, how does the Resistance pay them? Fuck you more. If constant war is how they maintain their decadent lifestyle, why are they blithely letting the First Order move forward to utterly destroy the Resistance which would put a crimp in their entire business model? Fuck you.
Look. War destroys wealth. It does not create it. Individuals can profit from it but its overall net record on wealth is negative. Always and everywhere. The original six movies showed us a complete universe where wealth was created and commerce happened and you could imagine how the Senate and Empire taxed them and it could make sense. In contrast, here, we are told that literally every rich person made their wealth through arms dealing. That's fucking impossible. Someone has to create the wealth for the military to take and use to build its stuff and feed its troops.
But hey, I can ride along for a good story and I like Star Wars so I'm suspending disbelief and all that, until I come here and find out that the director hates backstories where characters are actually connected to stuff from the past so all this was a conscious choice.
Fuck you Rian Johnson. Snoke didn't have to be Palpatine, or Darth [take your pick] or anyone we knew. But he had to be somebody with a plausible path to controlling vast amounts of people and supplies. Instead we get Fuck you.
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TL;DR fuck you
Thing is, I like it as long as I don't analyze it.
I left the theatre happy and having enjoyed it.
You bastards did not ruin it for me at all.
I have, however, shaken my head and perhaps sighed a few times at some posts here, alas, and to those I give the following carefully considered but perhaps somewhat moist analysis: phhhbbbbtt.
Saw it at my (accidentally) traditional crack of dawn on opening day so as to avoid potential spoilers from those seeing it the night before.
If you don't overthink things that give you pleasure until they annoy you, you're just not trying hard enough.
Yes, they were there.
I'm gonna have to think about this. Give me a while.
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