STAR WARS VIII (spoilers!!!)

[Falastur]

Is your assumption that Abrams just handed off a cliffhanger to Johnson and let him write from there? It's hard for me to believe that the three movies weren't plotted out in advance by Abrams, with Johnson being left to write the screenplay for VIII, much like the way Lucas plotted Empire but the screenplay is credited to Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan.

I spoke to my friend again, by the way. He said that he's seen a number of interviews with Rian Johnson and others, and they basically said that since JJ Abrams wasn't expecting to direct any of the other films in the trilogy he actually made no plans at all for later films - he introduced a number of elements which could be explored later and which were written in such a way as that future directors could take them in a handful of different directions, but agreed nothing with regards to what actually should happen. This meant that Rian Johnson basically had carte blanche, within reason, to propose anything, including things which fitted into his aforementioned vision and style in films, such as that Snoke's identity should not be the focus of the series but he should be "just another feature of the galaxy", and that Rey's parents should be nobodies.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I feel like I missed something or projected something else entirely into the playing down of Rey’s parentage.

I took the context of those statements to be unreliable at best.

I probably overlooked something, but on my own, I didn’t rule out that Kylo and Rey are related based on anything in the film said by Kylo or Snoke. Were there other clues that I missed that support the idea that the bad guys were doing more than playing on her insecurities in an attempt to fill her emotional needs to elicit the course of action they wanted?

 

[ferrarinycfc]

These sequels have pretty much ruined everything that made Star Wars such fun.

Somewhere George Lucas is rolling over in his grave and the guy isnt even dead yet.

The force awakens was a rip off of a New hope. Why is there a resistance if there is a New Republic anyway. They would just be an army.

The Last Jedi is an insult to anyone over 15 years of age.

I mean the First order couldn't catch the fleeing resistance, It was the slowest chase in space history. Even OJ's police chase was faster. Lets not just jump ahead of them but lets wait till they run out of fuel FFS.

Don't get me started on Mary Poppins Leia either.

Yoda channelling lightning despite being a force ghost ? Yeah sure why not.

Chuck in some token characters to celebrate "Diversity" and it was a mess from the start.

Snoke was the only interesting character and they get Emo Kylo Ren to finish him off.

The only one I've enjoyed has been Rogue One.

 

[mgarbowski]

I feel like I missed something or projected something else entirely into the playing down of Rey’s parentage.

I took the context of those statements to be unreliable at best.

I probably overlooked something, but on my own, I didn’t rule out that Kylo and Rey are related based on anything in the film said by Kylo or Snoke. Were there other clues that I missed that support the idea that the bad guys were doing more than playing on her insecurities in an attempt to fill her emotional needs to elicit the course of action they wanted?

I think you’re right that our only source establishing Rey’s parents is unreliable. I also think Johnson meant for it to be an established fact. But nothing stops the writer of Ep 9 from saying it was a lie.
It doesn’t bother me if she lacks pedigree. I kind of share Johnson’s distaste for the idea that all the new characters have to be connected to the prior ones. I think this way opens up the universe.
What I don’t like is the make it up as we go along style of authorship for stories told in serial form. Exp 7 clearly pointed to her having “famous” parents. Exp 8 just said nah, never mind. One of the obligations of storytelling is to payoff your setups.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

What I don’t like is the make it up as we go along style of authorship for stories told in serial form

I agree. I’m still not convinced that the greater arc is actually being concocted on the fly, and Abrams/Johnson aren’t pulling a bit of the same as Snoke/Kylo here in how they are playing up the freedom.

I think they have narrative confines, even if they were the ones who set them.

 

[Falastur]

I feel like I missed something or projected something else entirely into the playing down of Rey’s parentage.

I took the context of those statements to be unreliable at best.

I probably overlooked something, but on my own, I didn’t rule out that Kylo and Rey are related based on anything in the film said by Kylo or Snoke. Were there other clues that I missed that support the idea that the bad guys were doing more than playing on her insecurities in an attempt to fill her emotional needs to elicit the course of action they wanted?

It basically could go any way, because ep9 is back to JJ Abrams, but this is from an interview with Rian Johnson:

So, can I just make the statement, that’s who her parents are? They came from nothing, they’re buried in the desert, is that for sure?

RIAN JOHNSON: That’s what Kylo sees and that’s what he tells her and I think he’s not lying in that moment. That’s what he saw and she seems to believe it when she hears it. I don’t want to … I’m not writing the next film, we’ll see how they handle it going forward, and as we all know in these movies, there’s always a certain point of view that’s involved. But, for me, I’ll tell you that was the … I can understand why that answer doesn’t feel good. It’s not supposed to feel good. It’s supposed to be the hardest thing she could possibly hear in that moment.

...

“The same way that if you think about … if you go back to Vader telling Luke, “I am your father.” That was effective, not because it was a surprise, because it was a twist, I think it was effective because that’s the hardest thing both Luke and the audience could hear in that moment. It turns it from the … it takes away the easy answer is basically. It takes it from, yes, Vader is just a bad guy we hate and we want to die, into, wait a minute, Vader is actually a part of our protagonist, he has a connection to him, and we have to think about him in a more complicated way, in a way that may involve redemption. That doesn’t feel great. That’s like, Mark’s amazing heartfelt, “No,” in reaction to that is the correct response.

In this movie, the easiest thing that, the wish fulfillment for Rey and for the audience, would be, “Yes, you are so and so’s daughter. Yes, here is your place in this movie. Here is how you fit in. Problem solved.” I can understand why Rey would desperately want that and why us, we as an audience, do too. But the hardest … but we’re not here to give Rey an easy time, we’re here to put her on the hard path so that she has to … because that’s the path of a hero. And the hardest thing she could hear is, “You’re not gonna get that easy answer. You’re going to [inaudible 00:02:41] not going to be defined by your lineage in this. You’re going to have to stand on your own two feet and to find yourself. And, not only that, Kylo is going to use the fact that you don’t have that to stand on to try and get you to lean on him in this moment. And you’re going to have to find the strength within yourself to define yourself in this world.” And that’s hard. It needs to be hard. It should be hard.”

 

[LostAnvil]

I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere, but does anyone else remember seeing the ancient Jedi books in a drawer in the Millenium Falcon? Adds a whole other layer to yoda burning the place down if I’m remembering correctly.

and a fun Easter egg was in Rogue One - Jyn mentions hyperspace tracking