Toronto Postmatch

[SoupInNYC]

Go back to my post at the top of this page that sparked this discussion. I talked about many things Mix did or didn't do.

Of course even good players lose the ball. Usually in some ratio with positive plays or advancing the ball. I even posted Mix's passing chart. I can't find anything he did well, and the only response I've gotten so far is "it's his teammates' fault."

If our players were so bad and therefore impossible for Mix to contribute, how come Mullins had multiple chances on goal? How was Mullins able to make two key passes? How come Bravo was able to complete five long balls forward? How come Poku was able to score? Mix was involved in none of this.

EDIT: Let's try this. Tell me why Mix played well, in your opinion.

To jump in here, I've actually been a big Mix fan, and felt he's received a lot of undeserved criticism through last year and into this year. But I actually thought he played poorly last night as well and didn't do much to help his case.

However, I still would much rather see him over Lopez in the starting XI as I believe he brings a lot more than Mikey does. I know in general, when players are playing with better players, they generally play better (woah - that was confusing to type). But I do think Mix really elevates his game when surrounded by more talent. And I think his play with the USMNT is a great example of that.

That said, I see why PV is playing Mikey, but I'd rather see Mix there. But I don't necessarily agree with people that he had a good game last night.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Interesting when Ballouchy and Poku switched, and I'm interested in how that happened. As the game started, it looked like Ballouchy was playing on the LW and Poku as one of the mids. Then at some point it seemed that Ballouchy naturally started playing much deeper into his more natural position being a holding mid-type.

I really didn't notice Poku playing on the LW until the second half started. I'm wondering if PV didn't really think Ballouchy could stay in position at LW and decided to throw Poku out there.

I dont think they actually switch spots. I think Poku was playing his LCM spot and Ballouchy was playing in the middle so we really only had two forwards. Can one point mendoza did switch sides to the lw before villa subbed on.

 

[FootyLovin]

To jump in here, I've actually been a big Mix fan, and felt he's received a lot of undeserved criticism through last year and into this year. But I actually thought he played poorly last night as well and didn't do much to help his case.

However, I still would much rather see him over Lopez in the starting XI as I believe he brings a lot more than Mikey does. I know in general, when players are playing with better players, they generally play better (woah - that was confusing to type). But I do think Mix really elevates his game when surrounded by more talent. And I think his play with the USMNT is a great example of that.

That said, I see why PV is playing Mikey, but I'd rather see Mix there. But I don't necessarily agree with people that he had a good game last night.

I think the Mix/Mikey argument is also confused based on home field. Mikey will look crazy active on Saturday in part because of the small field. It's much easier to rush the opposing players into bad passes when all the angles are tighter. By contrast, AHABS, Mix in Toronto was constantly rushing players into easy outlet passes, partly due to the spacious field.

I wonder if Mikey is a better player for us at YS when his frenzy style is highly disruptive. Mix might be a better player for us on larger fields where playing the passing angles might be more effective, both in terms of defense and conserving energy.

At TFC Mix was playing the Mikey frenzy style. I don't think that worked very well (especially because the team wasn't coordinated in their pressure) on the large field where he would have been better suited playing the passing lanes.

 

[Kjbert]

Poku is looking more and more like YaYa

 

[CCMore]

I just remembered what the second half of the game reminded me of. The second half of our PRMNT game we played last fall. So many subs who weren't moving or trying to find space. The game felt so stagnant. Poku scoring a goal. Thank god their wasn't an own goal though

Edit: just remembered there was two own goals in that game that cancelled each other out.

 

[LeeNYCFC]

EDIT: Let's try this. Tell me why Mix played well, in your opinion.

Everyone's looking at the same thing but seeing it differently. Some see Mix as energetic and everywhere, others see him out of position and far too rarely involved in scoring opportunities.
I don't think he had anywhere near a good game in Toronto. As someone who doesn't rate him that highly, I did think it was a better performance than Portland.

I shared a quote from PV from the Portland match saying that he views Mix as a specialized offensive player who should be creating and converting chances. If that's how his coach wants him to contribute, where are the results?

I think Mix and Tommy Mac are opposite poles of looks and talent. Mix sure as hell looks like a footballer, but the awareness, speed of thought, and ideas are missing. Tommy Mac sure as hell doesn't look like one but watching his confidence, combination play, and touch has been a real joy.

 

[Viewfrom226]

Tommy Mac sure as hell doesn't look like one but watching his confidence, combination play, and touch has been a real joy.

Absolutely. Which reminds me of a funny thing I meant to point out. On the NYCFC "Behind the Scenes" Portland video, they show the player procession at the beginning of the match. The "kids" were older than the usual lot, and the kid walking out with Tommy is literally taller then him. All of which is particularly fantastic given the bomb he dropped on them.

 

[fanaka66]

I am a huge Mix fanboy, but I was hoping for more out of him the past couple of games. I didn't think he played bad, but I wanted him to give a statement that the starting job is his. I don't think he did that.

Regardless, I still want him starting over Lopez. He may not be quite as aggressive in the box-to-box role annoying the opponents, but his ceiling offensively is infinitely higher. I feel if Mikey gets an assist, we will all be celebrating in the streets, but with Mix we could realistically see multiple goals and/or assists on any given night, especially if he was in the lineup consistently.

 

[Kjbert]

I am a huge Mix fanboy, but I was hoping for more out of him the past couple of games. I didn't think he played bad, but I wanted him to give a statement that the starting job is his. I don't think he did that.

Regardless, I still want him starting over Lopez. He may not be quite as aggressive in the box-to-box role annoying the opponents, but his ceiling offensively is infinitely higher. I feel if Mikey gets an assist, we will all be celebrating in the streets, but with Mix we could realistically see multiple goals and/or assists on any given night, especially if he was in the lineup consistently.

I think PV is trying to equal out the offense vs. defense. He must believe he has enough offense between Villa, Matarrita, McNamara and Shelton that he doesn't need the incremental improvement from Mix.

Mix played really well the other night. But any casual observer would watch that game and not think he made a massive difference.

 

[sbrylski]

Mix played really well the other night. But any casual observer would watch that game and not think he made a massive difference.

I'll take slight offense to this. I'm still waiting for someone to refute anything I said in my criticism of Mix on page 5 of this thread, or to explain why he played well without resorting to vague sportswriter filler.

 

[Viewfrom226]

Mix played really well the other night. But any casual observer would watch that game and not think he made a massive difference.

I'll readily admit to just being a guy who likes to watch the games and talk about them, but let's be a bit reserved in characterizing what type of fan someone is based on their opinions. Other than truly outstanding plays or complete howlers, this is always going to be a sport that is subject to interpretation.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

Lopez passes the ball to pirlo or he loses it. His only recorded "skill" at CM is to run around looking like he is doing something. The bar to be better than him at that position is low. That said, I think he is very good at CDM. Mix can dribble without losing the ball, he combines with his wingers and fullbacks (started two goal sequences in two weeks), he can score in MLS and internationally.
If his volley is six inches lower, he wins us the toronto game and he's a hero. He stifled Michael Bradley to the point that Bradley started chippy fouls on him.
There are times when Mix is in the box, and we have all seen him play well there. The past two games he started were defensive games where we were on our heels for various reasons, including playing a better team in Portland and playing a B lineup in TO. The role of a CM in those games was to get the ball to the forwards, and to not allow the opposition a clean build up from their midfield. Both jobs were accomplished by Mix.

It may be argued that Lampard could do a better job in Mix's position, but I really don;t see how it can be argued that a CDM with bad ball skills can.

Does anyone look their best while getting spotty starts with changing lineups? Especially a CM, who's main job is to get the ball to the forwards in good positions. Personally, i think mix looked fine and was a main reason we tied in TO with the b team. If some don;t, I can see their point, but I think game state and supporting cast are mitigating circumstances that certainly do not warrant trading a very good, young player, who can benefit from playing with lampard and pirlo and being coached by Vieira.

Salary, who cares, has cap space lost us one player so far? We have our pieces at every position, plus backups. The guy is good, young, can improve, is a USMNT player, and the ladies love him. You build around him, not let someone else do that.

 

[Viewfrom226]

Lopez passes the ball to pirlo or he loses it. His only recorded "skill" at CM is to run around looking like he is doing something. The bar to be better than him at that position is low. That said, I think he is very good at CDM. Mix can dribble without losing the ball, he combines with his wingers and fullbacks (started two goal sequences in two weeks), he can score in MLS and internationally.
If his volley is six inches lower, he wins us the toronto game and he's a hero. He stifled Michael Bradley to the point that Bradley started chippy fouls on him.
There are times when Mix is in the box, and we have all seen him play well there. The past two games he started were defensive games where we were on our heels for various reasons, including playing a better team in Portland and playing a B lineup in TO. The role of a CM in those games was to get the ball to the forwards, and to not allow the opposition a clean build up from their midfield. Both jobs were accomplished by Mix.

It may be argued that Lampard could do a better job in Mix's position, but I really don;t see how it can be argued that a CDM with bad ball skills can.

Does anyone look their best while getting spotty starts with changing lineups? Especially a CM, who's main job is to get the ball to the forwards in good positions. Personally, i think mix looked fine and was a main reason we tied in TO with the b team. If some don;t, I can see their point, but I think game state and supporting cast are mitigating circumstances that certainly do not warrant trading a very good, young player, who can benefit from playing with lampard and pirlo and being coached by Vieira.

Salary, who cares, has cap space lost us one player so far? We have our pieces at every position, plus backups. The guy is good, young, can improve, is a USMNT player, and the ladies love him. You build around him, not let someone else do that.

I too would much rather see Mix over Lopez in that position. He has immensely higher upside. I just would have liked to see more out of him in the last two starts and wasn't quite as keen on his two performances as some others.

My analogy for Lopez is that he is like one of those good glove, no hit shortstops in baseball. He has one good skill, and I do genuinely think he is good at it, but he is so brutal offensively that it will cost you goals.

My frustration with Mix in the past two matches is that I thought he had an opportunity to step up in a more assertive way than he did and really establish himself as the right guy there, but that it didn't happen. It is quite possible that there were subtleties that I am not accounting for, but I often find myself wanting him to be more a real difference-maker than he is.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I think that the CM position is frequently one in which a good performance can go unnoticed. CBs have a good game and you see it because they are tackling and blocking, etc. FBs are streaking up the field putting in crosses. Forwards are making shots, creating havoc in the box. Even CDM shows up because he is cutting out the attack as the offense is running at goal. The CM is often doing one touch passes to open up a forward. Positioning can force defenders and keepers into bad passes. There are plenty of games that their passing stands out, or they have opportunities for goals, but many games are unnoticed dirty work. Just my opinion

 

[sbrylski]

Lopez passes the ball to pirlo or he loses it. His only recorded "skill" at CM is to run around looking like he is doing something. The bar to be better than him at that position is low. That said, I think he is very good at CDM.

True. He's our worst "starter."

Mix can dribble without losing the ball, he combines with his wingers and fullbacks (started two goal sequences in two weeks), he can score in MLS and internationally.
If his volley is six inches lower, he wins us the toronto game and he's a hero. He stifled Michael Bradley to the point that Bradley started chippy fouls on him.
There are times when Mix is in the box, and we have all seen him play well there. The past two games he started were defensive games where we were on our heels for various reasons, including playing a better team in Portland and playing a B lineup in TO. The role of a CM in those games was to get the ball to the forwards, and to not allow the opposition a clean build up from their midfield. Both jobs were accomplished by Mix.

I think this is a good general take on Mix. He does a lot of little things well and all that, and potential to make an impact any given day.

That said, it seems that when Mix doesn't do anything particular well in a game, nor does he do anything particularly poor, people just insert their preconceived notion about his quality in any given game. I think that's what I'm rebelling against here.

For example - "Mix can dribble without losing the ball." True. He averages 1.4 dispossessions per game, pretty low. Yet against Toronto, he lost the ball four times, significantly higher than his average. Yet this was ignored.

It may be argued that Lampard could do a better job in Mix's position, but I really don;t see how it can be argued that a CDM with bad ball skills can.

I think I was the only one who said I'm ok with Lopez. I'd argue that with Pirlo in there, ball skills are less important, and the little that Lopez brings to the table just happens to be exactly what we need - a guy to press high in our attacking half. That said, I wouldn't complain about either of them in the lineup at this point.

Does anyone look their best while getting spotty starts with changing lineups? Especially a CM, who's main job is to get the ball to the forwards in good positions. Personally, i think mix looked fine and was a main reason we tied in TO with the b team. If some don;t, I can see their point, but I think game state and supporting cast are mitigating circumstances that certainly do not warrant trading a very good, young player, who can benefit from playing with lampard and pirlo and being coached by Vieira.

Salary, who cares, has cap space lost us one player so far? We have our pieces at every position, plus backups. The guy is good, young, can improve, is a USMNT player, and the ladies love him. You build around him, not let someone else do that.

I'm not going to write off the cap space thing as easy. Mix costs us more than $300k in allocation money *alone* per year. We have multiple players on the roster that are performing better and costing less. That is not insignificant in the slightest. Would you let Mix go in order to bring in another Brillant and Matarrita? Another McNamara and Bravo? What about a single De Jong, Accam, or Waston? Beckerman? Even Kai Kamara (ignoring the locker room issues) is only making about $200k more than Mix.

We absolutely are making the decision that Mix is as good or better investment than some of these other optiosn by keeping him on the roster.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

For example - "Mix can dribble without losing the ball." True. He averages 1.4 dispossessions per game, pretty low. Yet against Toronto, he lost the ball four times, significantly higher than his average. Yet this was ignored.

Those four dispossessions are mitigated by the fact it was Michael Bradley, the best CDM in the country dispossessing him.

I'm not going to write off the cap space thing as easy. Mix costs us more than $300k in allocation money *alone* per year. We have multiple players on the roster that are performing better and costing less. That is not insignificant in the slightest. Would you let Mix go in order to bring in another Brillant and Matarrita? Another McNamara and Bravo? What about a single De Jong, Accam, or Waston? Beckerman? Even Kai Kamara (ignoring the locker room issues) is only making about $200k more than Mix.

We absolutely are making the decision that Mix is as good or better investment than some of these other optiosn by keeping him on the roster.

I'd say there are worse cap players on the roster (Iraola, Mena, Saunders) and that has not stopped us from bringing in Bravo, Matarrita, Brillant et al. And, most importantly for me, none of the players you mentioned (except dejong, who is on a weird cap salary) are center midfielders. I don't think that good CMs are easy to find, and Mix has the added value of being USMNT and marketable. Who would you bring it at CM that is in MLS now that would be better than Mix in the box to box role? (Curious, not being a dick) Most of MLS plays a counterattacking style, that requires a much different CM skillset.

 

[sbrylski]

And, most importantly for me, none of the players you mentioned (except dejong, who is on a weird cap salary) are center midfielders. I don't think that good CMs are easy to find, and Mix has the added value of being USMNT and marketable. Who would you bring it at CM that is in MLS now that would be better than Mix in the box to box role? (Curious, not being a dick) Most of MLS plays a counterattacking style, that requires a much different CM skillset.

I'm sure you could argue against a few of these, and I'm sure I missed a player or three as well. But here's a shortlist:

Michael Bradley
Pedro Morales
Sacha Kljestan
Marcelo Sarvas
Kelwyn Rowe
Felipe
Will Trapp
Dax McCarty
Benny Feilhaber

This is not counting true attacking mids such as Mauro Diaz and Diego Valeri, to name two. Was looking for guys that I'd trust in a true holding role and contributing something defensively.

So, no, I don't think it's impossible to find a good CM in MLS.

I'll meet you half way though and agree that we should be cautious about simply jettisoning Mix, even if he is too expensive. Have the replacement lined up first, for example. He's a solid player (never denied that) and plays an important position in our system.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I'm sure you could argue against a few of these, and I'm sure I missed a player or three as well. But here's a shortlist:

Michael Bradley
Pedro Morales
Sacha Kljestan
Marcelo Sarvas
Kelwyn Rowe
Felipe
Will Trapp
Dax McCarty
Benny Feilhaber

This is not counting true attacking mids such as Mauro Diaz and Diego Valeri, to name two. Was looking for guys that I'd trust in a true holding role and contributing something defensively.

So, no, I don't think it's impossible to find a good CM in MLS.

I'll meet you half way though and agree that we should be cautious about simply jettisoning Mix, even if he is too expensive. Have the replacement lined up first, for example. He's a solid player (never denied that) and plays an important position in our system.

I think we are both responding to the superlative views, me that Mix should be traded and you that he is the second coming. I agree with your last paragraph

 

[FootyLovin]

I think we are both responding to the superlative views, me that Mix should be traded and you that he is the second coming. I agree with your last paragraph

I'm just so glad you guys are finally making up. It's so hard to see you fight like this. It's like you never notice how your fighting affects the rest of us.

 

[mgarbowski]

I'm just so glad you guys are finally making up. It's so hard to see you fight like this. It's like you never notice how your fighting affects the rest of us.

Are you saying it's safe, and we're all gonna be OK, Footy?