Used two times in the France-Spain game today and worked perfectly without slowing the game down.
Video Assistant Referee
- Thread starter ktdNYCFC
- Start date
This is how I want it done. The main ref listens to his earpiece and hears the decision from another ref off the field looking at the monitors. Quick and easy. Not the main ref walking off the field to go to the video monitor himself and make a decision.
In fairness, once teams attune themselves to the idea of a video ref always being there to potentially overrule, you'll soon see them refusing to stop playing until the ball goes out of play or the ref blows his whistle.
You think they'd overturn something that helped Mexico? Replay will always prove inconclusive when it's Mexico in concacaf.
Listening to the Grant Wahl podcast with Howard Webb on this subject. There is some good stuff in here, and I recommend it to everyone.
We all need to bone up on how VAR works and where the shortcomings may be. This will arrive in MLS in just over 3 months, and our first game under it will be our home game against the Red Fools on August 6.
Here is a summary of how it works.
1. There are 4 types of calls that can be reviewed.
3. The process begins with the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) and his/her assistant reviewing the play in question on a bank of monitors. This can be triggered by the referee requesting the review or by the referee's decision at the recommendation of the VAR. The VAR can conduct a "silent review" to see if he/she should recommend a review to the referee.
4. If the VAR believes there has been clear and obvious error, he/she will contact the referee with that judgment. The referee can then either change the call on the advice of the VAR or conduct an On Field Review (OFR) by going to a designated spot on the sideline to review the video.
5. The referee is allowed to stop play to reverse a call or conduct an OFR, but it not supposed to do so when either team is engaged in an attacking chance.
6. If the referee changes a decision, he will precede that call by making a rectangle with his hands (see below) to indicate that it was changed by video review.
A few additional notes.
http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/216/VAR_Protocol Summary_v1.0.pdf
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/09/video-assistant-referee-stamp-out-match-fixing
We all need to bone up on how VAR works and where the shortcomings may be. This will arrive in MLS in just over 3 months, and our first game under it will be our home game against the Red Fools on August 6.
Here is a summary of how it works.
1. There are 4 types of calls that can be reviewed.
- Goals and whether there was a violation during the build up
- Penalty decisions
- Red Card decisions
- Mistaken Identity
3. The process begins with the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) and his/her assistant reviewing the play in question on a bank of monitors. This can be triggered by the referee requesting the review or by the referee's decision at the recommendation of the VAR. The VAR can conduct a "silent review" to see if he/she should recommend a review to the referee.
4. If the VAR believes there has been clear and obvious error, he/she will contact the referee with that judgment. The referee can then either change the call on the advice of the VAR or conduct an On Field Review (OFR) by going to a designated spot on the sideline to review the video.
5. The referee is allowed to stop play to reverse a call or conduct an OFR, but it not supposed to do so when either team is engaged in an attacking chance.
6. If the referee changes a decision, he will precede that call by making a rectangle with his hands (see below) to indicate that it was changed by video review.
A few additional notes.
- Red cards are reviewable, but second yellows are not - sorry Bayern fans; Vidal's sending off would not be affected.
- Players who demand a video review by making the rectangle motion are subject to booking.
- The VAR may be in the Stadium or at another location.
- Slow motion should only be used for "point of contact" offenses, such as physical offenses and handballs. Regular speed should be used to determine the intensity of an offense and whether a handball was deliberate.
- Reviews for goals, penalty kick decisions and DOGSO red cards go back to the beginning of the "attacking possession phase" - i.e. when the attacking team first gained possession of the ball or restarted play. Other reviews only cover the incident itself.
http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/216/VAR_Protocol Summary_v1.0.pdf
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/09/video-assistant-referee-stamp-out-match-fixing
- Players who demand a video review by making the rectangle motion are subject to booking.
I heard that on the nycfc match when the player made the motion and the commentators said your about 3 months early buddy. Funny cause you don't get a card for making the dive motion or give him a card motion. Seems petty, just wave him off if he makes a square and play the game. lots of people are going to get yellows cause its just a bad habit.
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Listening to the Grant Wahl podcast with Howard Webb on this subject. There is some good stuff in here, and I recommend it to everyone.
We all need to bone up on how VAR works and where the shortcomings may be. This will arrive in MLS in just over 3 months, and our first game under it will be our home game against the Red Fools on August 6.
Here is a summary of how it works.
1. There are 4 types of calls that can be reviewed.
2. The standard is a "clear and obvious error"
- Goals and whether there was a violation during the build up
- Penalty decisions
- Red Card decisions
- Mistaken Identity
3. The process begins with the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) and his/her assistant reviewing the play in question on a bank of monitors. This can be triggered by the referee requesting the review or by the referee's decision at the recommendation of the VAR. The VAR can conduct a "silent review" to see if he/she should recommend a review to the referee.
4. If the VAR believes there has been clear and obvious error, he/she will contact the referee with that judgment. The referee can then either change the call on the advice of the VAR or conduct an On Field Review (OFR) by going to a designated spot on the sideline to review the video.
5. The referee is allowed to stop play to reverse a call or conduct an OFR, but it not supposed to do so when either team is engaged in an attacking chance.
6. If the referee changes a decision, he will precede that call by making a rectangle with his hands (see below) to indicate that it was changed by video review.
A few additional notes.
http://quality.fifa.com/en/var/#work
- Red cards are reviewable, but second yellows are not - sorry Bayern fans; Vidal's sending off would not be affected.
- Players who demand a video review by making the rectangle motion are subject to booking.
- The VAR may be in the Stadium or at another location.
- Slow motion should only be used for "point of contact" offenses, such as physical offenses and handballs. Regular speed should be used to determine the intensity of an offense and whether a handball was deliberate.
- Reviews for goals, penalty kick decisions and DOGSO red cards go back to the beginning of the "attacking possession phase" - i.e. when the attacking team first gained possession of the ball or restarted play. Other reviews only cover the incident itself.
http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/216/VAR_Protocol Summary_v1.0.pdf
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/09/video-assistant-referee-stamp-out-match-fixing
This is already starting to piss me off. So the referee won't go to the VAR unless s/he wants to. And the silent review by the VAR is only for clear and obvious errors? In a game like baseball, there's a lack of subjectivity with calls. The runners is either safe or not. The catcher was blocking the plate or not. Which is why the manager's challenge system works so well. They saw something different, they will challenge the play and have the umpires go to the monitors.
The two handball calls vs Orlando may not be clear and obvious mistakes in the VAR eyes because of subjectivity.
And say there should have been a handball in the box and a penalty called but the defending team then gets possession, counterattacks, and scores a goal. Then the penalty is called? Is their goal removed? This is looking so garbage.
On this last part, based on my understanding of it, none of the above happens. Play continues, the goal scored counts and that's it.
My understanding is that penalty decisions are subject to review and not potential penalties. Therefore, unless something was ruled as a penalty, it cannot be reviewed by VAR. But it is definitely possible I am misunderstanding the rule.
In essence, in our last game, the only plays that could have been reviewed are the goals that were scored to ensure there was no offsides, etc., and the yellow cards could have been reviewed to be sure they gave the card to the appropriate player.
The referee stays in control of the game, so he can waive off a recommendation of video review of a play. In practice, this is supposed to be in rare instances where he had a clear view and does not need another look, so most of the time, a recommendation would lead to a review. The referee also has final judgement on whether to reverse a call. The VAR is just an assistant that aids the referee in decision making.
The standard the VAR uses when deciding whether to recommend a video review by the referee is "potential clear error" - not a finding that it is definitely a clear error. If the VAR believes the referee may potentially think it is a clear error, then he/she will recommend a video review.
No, penalty decisions are reviewable both ways.
If there is a potential penalty that is not called, and the other team is on a counterattack, here is what happens. First, the VAR would do a silent review to check for a "potential clear error" - perhaps alerting the referee that he is doing so. Then, once he sees a potential clear error, he will alert the referee that he recommends a full video review. Since one of the teams is on an attack, the referee will not stop the game for that review until after the attack is over. After that team scores, he will review the earlier play for a penalty. Once he awards the penalty, it appears that the subsequent counter attack is not cancelled and the goal would stand. The rules state:
If play continues after an incident which is then reviewed, any disciplinary action taken/required during the post-incident period is not cancelled, even if the original decision is changed (except a caution/send-off for stopping a promising attack or DOGSO).
Part of the review for goals is to go back to the beginning of possession for the team that scored. If anything in the play from that point to the goal involves a reviewable incident and would be reversed, then the goal is waived off. This includes how the team obtained possession. So, if a team obtained possession via a handball, then the goal can be waived off and play restarted with the free kick for the handball. If a team obtained possession via a throw in or corner kick, you don't change the call since neither of those are reviewable. I think this is problematic as the line regarding what could or should be used to overturn a goal isn't clear. What if the handball is in your own half (e.g. the RJ Allen play to Villa against Portland last year)? What if there is a minor foul committed to get the ball in midfield? These kinds of things can overturn goals, even if they were far removed from the goal itself, so long as the attacking team maintained possession from that point to the goal.
I don't think your conclusion fits the text of the rule (or maybe the rule is just illogical, I guess), except indirectly insofar as if you damn sure think it was a penalty, then professional foul the hell out of the guy with the ball. According to the rule, if there is in an action to stop a counter or even DOGSO, and there should have been a goal/penalty, then the disciplinary action is cancelled. Right?
So based on how you're reading, which now I'm not as convinced is incorrect as I was when I first started this posting, if a goal happens on the other end, tough luck. But if you drag a guy down when he's in on goal, there won't be a penalty.
That strikes me as unbalanced, to say the least.
sidenote: I added the parenthetical in para. 1 post going through the rest of the logic chain. I'm confused.
Yes, I was just thinking of this kind of situation. I think it is not clear whether a goal would stand if it immediately followed a non-call that gets reversed. I haven't finished listening to the pod, so maybe Webb gets into that. I don't think the protocol linked above is clear on the point.
What is clear is that if there is a card issued after the call that's reversed, that card would not be reversed, unless it is for DOGSO.
or stopping a promising attack. And good luck with determining that shit. This is poor drafting, at a minimum.
It's one of the fundamental problems I have with the game, frankly. They draw brightline rules over stupid things (no hand to face contact), but then rely on the ref to re-interpret the core fucking tenets on a case-by-case basis. It's a bass-ackwards way of legislating a damn sport.
During preseason I was watching a game where a cross came in and 5 attackers raised their hand for a hand ball. Ref didn't see it. Next break in play Ref does a video review, spots the hand ball and awards a penalty kick. If I remember correctly it was a pretty big gap between the handball and the penalty award -- around 2 minutes.
Now you've hit upon another issue that concerns me with VAR - the hands to face and other strict rules for Red Cards.
I get why those are strict, but part of the reason for it is that the referee so rarely sees these things happening with any clarity. So, if you put your hand to the face of an opponent - especially lightly and in the run of play - and it is pretty unlikely to get called. You are taking a calculated risk. With VAR, you run the risk of having every light tap result in a Red Card. Maybe that's okay to some, but I worry that it will be like having Simon Borg be the ref - Red Cards for everyone. Plus, you have all the situations where intent is unclear. A player is being held from behind and swings his arm back against the opponent and happens to catch his head. Did he mean to catch his head? Was he even trying to strike him? or was he just trying to find him to push back? Who can tell?
A player being held that happens to hit the face while swinging his arms is definitely a card. The hold is a foul if noticed, but any hands to the face is a red card.
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