Away - Orlando 08/28

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Joe Bendik and Josh Saunders are both in the running for the "17th best goalkeeper in MLS Award".

GK is a wash in the Simbas-NYCFC matchup.

No, I don't think Saunders is the worst GK in MLS. Go ahead and attack.
 
I'm more interested to see PV chooses as our wing backs. Is he confident enough in the front 5-6 to throw Mena or Hern on the outside? Really would prefer to see RJ back there and press press press the ball forward to see if Orlando can contain us at all. I'd rather put the pressure on Goofy on the OC sideline to make the proper adjustments and force the issue.
 
Ulrich said:
You're a piece of work - sometimes I don't know why I even bother responding to your posts, but it's probably because I can't stand the way you deflect points being made and then get angry claiming people twist your argument when you're the one twisting the original.

So for starters, the definition of a straw man is:
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

This started because you refuted my statement that Kreis' record was showing he isn't yet capable of getting the most out of his star players:



Sabo & I were talking about not getting the most out of Kaka, Molino and Mattias Perez Garcia and you refuted it by talking about their defense and lack of a Midfield link. That's a Straw Man.

With reference to a Midfield Link, that refers to any and/or all of the Midfield players - the Midfield by definition links the defense and the attack. Teams play out of the back through different players/positions - some go through the middle (Recent ManU via Carrick) and others through the wing (Old ManU via Beckham/Giggs), and some straight to the creative (neither defensive nor advanced) midfielder (Valderrama / Etcheverry). Orlando has players at these positions that fit the bill. If you specifically meant a Holding/defensive midfielder, then say that and don't be obtuse. As it stands, Kaka drops and receives a large amount of the link play - if that's not working, then that's on the coach.

With reference to the Defense being horrendous, OCFC has given up 43 goals/25 games compared to NYCFC giving up 43 goals/26 games. While not great, it's not the worst in the league. The difference is that their offense has only scored 39 goals (6th in the East). They are tied for 6th in the East on GD. So yes, they could use some changes on Defense, but again, that was not the point of the original posts by Sabo & me.


Yes you misread. When the three players being discussed as being quality players and are all playing midfield, along with Nocerino, then yes its a straw man to claim there isn't a midfield link on the team.

So no, that's not playing fast as you characterized it, that's staying on topic as logic dictates.
Click to expand...

It's amazing how you can correctly quote the definition of a straw man argument then completely misapply it at length. DV didn't mischaracterize your argument. He disagreed with it. He might have been wrong, but that's not a straw man. If you say the sky it is a nice clear day and I say, no, the weather is terrible, I'm wrong (for today) but I have not employed a strawman. A strawman would be to say "how can you claim there are no clouds" or "you're wrong, it's not the most beautiful day ever." Because you made neither claim.

You and Sabo said Orlando have 3 good midfielders. DV said they lack a midfield link. That's an attack on your premise. It's indirect, because he doesn't directly address whether Kaka, Molino and PG are good, but claims they fail at one thing. He might be wrong, but it's not a strawman. It's a completely fair argument type, because 3 good mids might logically still have holes on their game including how they provide said link. He might be wrong, but it is not a strawman because he did not mischaracterize your argument. He didn't even restate your argument. Stating an incorrect or irrelevant fact or premise is not a strawman. A straw man in this context would be if DV said something like:
  • how can you claim they have the best midfield in MLS (because you never claimed that)
  • you're wrong, Kreis is not the worst coach in MLS (because for all your criticism of him you never claimed that either)
Finally, and admittedly this is slightly subtle but really should not be not that hard to get, there is a difference between the following 2 assertions:

1. You are wrong about the midfield because they have no good link up player
2. You are wrong to say that Orlando has a good linking mid

The latter is a strawman because up until that point you never said that Orlando had a good linking mid, and it would have been a strawman to claim you had said that. But DV's argument was in the form of 1 not 2. No strawman.

Finally, criticing a 1-2-2- record on the basis of having 3 good mids when those 3 mids played together in only 1 of the 5 games is playing fast and loose. Maybe you honestly didn't know, but then you should have graciously accepted the correction. But that does not seem to be in the playbook.
 
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mgarbowski said:
you should have graciously accepted the correction. But that does not seem to be in the playbook.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with your examples, but I'll accept that you're right.

The playbook reference is cheeky, and you know it, because considering how much you're on the forums, you have read posts where I am magnanimous and gracious at the end of discussions.
 
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At a farmers market in Waimea, Hawaii this morning. I'm wearing last years alternative strip. Dude walks up to me and says, "Hey man, love your shirt".
I respond "thanks my man!" and before I can start speaking about the Orlando game he says, "yeah, i fly with them all the time."

I couldn't think of anything intelligent to say so i mumbled something about organic tomatos and walked off
 
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Hobo said:
At a farmers market in Waimea, Hawaii this morning. I'm wearing last years alternative strip. Dude walks up to me and says, "Hey man, love your shirt".
I respond "thanks my man!" and before I can start speaking about the game today, he says, "yeah, i fly with them all the time."

I couldn't think of anything intelligent to say so i mumbled something about organic tomatos and walked off
Click to expand...

Etihad Cynergy...
 
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