Copa America - Chile 2015

[GratefulDawg]

Argentina just put on a masterclass in the second half against Paraguay. This should be a GREAT final.

Shame that it's on Bein Sports and is happening during the women's tournament. This is yet another great edition of this tournament, and I don't think many are paying attention.

 

[BxLio91]

Watched both games at the same damn time

 

[GratefulDawg]

Watched both games at the same damn time

He approves.

 

[TabascoDiva]

Any bets ? Any predictions ? Any favorite to win the The Copa.

My favorite was Uruguay and it weren't for that dastardly deed committed by Chilean Jara, they could had been a finalist to win the Copa. I always like Argentina even with Messi or Despite Messi, its exciting to watch them play. On the semifinal game the drubbing that Paraguay got, my favorite goal was the last one that Messi set up and Higuain netted it in. just because of that I have watched that game 4 times.
Le apuesto a la Argentina 3-2.

 

[BxLio91]

Argentina are favorite and I like 99% of their players but I can't, won't ever root for Messi to win something.

 

[FootyLovin]

Argentina are favorite and I like 99% of their players but I can't, won't ever root for Messi to win something.

Put your money on Argentina. I don't see them losing a tourney final on South American soil two summers in a row.

 

[Victors87]

It's Chile golden age.

I'm giving it to Chile 1-0 or to penalties where Chile wins

 

[Z4CH3B99]

Any bets ? Any predictions ? Any favorite to win the The Copa.

My favorite was Uruguay and it weren't for that dastardly deed committed by Chilean Jara, they could had been a finalist to win the Copa. I always like Argentina even with Messi or Despite Messi, its exciting to watch them play. On the semifinal game the drubbing that Paraguay got, my favorite goal was the last one that Messi set up and Higuain netted it in. just because of that I have watched that game 4 times.
Le apuesto a la Argentina 3-2.

I think that Chile is going to win the game 2-1 or 3-2 with a controversial penalty to boot.

 

[Victors87]

What a game! Extra time

 

[horseytweets]

Best image ever.

Can look but can't touch.
Congrats Chile!

 

[LionNYC]

Leo Messi will never win a major international tournament. It's the curse of being so deadly at the club level.

 

[Z4CH3B99]

Leo Messi will never win a major international tournament. It's the curse of being so deadly at the club level.

He looks like a completely different man when he puts on the Argentina shirt.

 

[TabascoDiva]

Last week ESPN Deportes had a debate “Why Messi had only achieved fame at European club level and been unsuccessful at the international national team level"

One of the debater postulated that Messi has shined because of the company he keeps - he plays with other talented players around him,

Another postulated that the team: Barcelona) had developed a system of play around him and thus this is why he (Messy) shined. And when he plays at the national team level he is not called to duty at the qualification level and has very little opportunity to mesh with the national team and therefore the teammates do not read him well.

The third debater stated that if he failed at Chile 2016 to claim the title, Russia 2018 would be his last opportunity to be considered one of the best in the world of the 21st century.

I am very disappointed with today’s result. I was rooting for Messy and Argentina, all the way.He is not one of my favorite players in the world but watching him play at the Copa America 2016, I have come to observe and admire his talent. Buena Suerte Messi en Rusia 2018.

 

[FootyLovin]

The third debater stated that if he failed at Chile 2016 to claim the title, Russia 2018 would be his last opportunity to be considered one of the best in the world of the 21st centur

The third debater is a moron. Messi could go lay an egg on the field in Russia. It won't matter. There have been maybe 10 players in the last century with his skills. International titles are complicated by way too many factors. Do they add to a player's mystique? Sure. But should we conclude that Ronaldo, Zlatan, and every Brit to play the game since 1966 can't be considered "one of the best" simply because their national team didn't win a title against other fantastic national teams?

What an imbecile.

 

[Z4CH3B99]

The third debater is a moron. Messi could go lay an egg on the field in Russia. It won't matter. There have been maybe 10 players in the last century with his skills. International titles are complicated by way too many factors. Do they add to a player's mystique? Sure. But should we conclude that Ronaldo, Zlatan, and every Brit to play the game since 1966 can't be considered "one of the best" simply because their national team didn't win a title against other fantastic national teams?

What an imbecile.

I wouldn't exactly call the 3rd debater an imbecile. He has a somewhat valid point in my opinion. The truly legendary players like Pelé, Ronaldo, and Ronaldinho all achieved something with the Brazilian national team. They won at least one trophy if I'm not mistaken.

Messi is absolutely amazing on the field for Barcelona. I think his success is partially due to the company that the team keeps around him. He has world class players surrounding him and making sure he shines. Hell, they even play a strategy that seems to work towards his strengths.

The Argentinean national team on the other hand aren't equipped with arguably the best players in the world at every single position like Barcelona. The national team also doesn't use a style of play that makes Messi the focal point. Other players use their call up to the national team as a chance to show what they've got. Add that to the fact that he doesn't play qualifiers or many friendlies with his national teammates. Your end result is a struggling player who can't do anything right. Except for a moment of individual brilliance here and there.

 

[FootyLovin]

I wouldn't exactly call the 3rd debater an imbecile. He has a somewhat valid point in my opinion. The truly legendary players like Pelé, Ronaldo, and Ronaldinho all achieved something with the Brazilian national team. They won at least one trophy if I'm not mistaken.

Messi is absolutely amazing on the field for Barcelona. I think his success is partially due to the company that the team keeps around him. He has world class players surrounding him and making sure he shines. Hell, they even play a strategy that seems to work towards his strengths.

The Argentinean national team on the other hand aren't equipped with arguably the best players in the world at every single position like Barcelona. The national team also doesn't use a style of play that makes Messi the focal point. Other players use their call up to the national team as a chance to show what they've got. Add that to the fact that he doesn't play qualifiers or many friendlies with his national teammates. Your end result is a struggling player who can't do anything right. Except for a moment of individual brilliance here and there.

I'd call him an imbecile for this reason: You can't logically state that a player needs an international trophy to be one of the greatest players of his generation or century or whatever. In any 20 year span there are only 2-4 countries from each continent that will win trophies. These are team achievements and based on many factors. Should Argentina win a trophy? The answer is maybe. But it's not based on if Messi is great. It's based on how their talent and coaching as a whole stack up against the talent and coaching of other countries competing at that time.

By this guy's logic Zlatan can never be great. Bale can never be great. Christiano Ronaldo can never be great. No one from England can ever be great. Some players cement their legends by carrying their teams to international trophies. Lots of great players play for teams that have no chance. And some great players play for teams that run up against brick walls for any number of reasons.

 

[TabascoDiva]

It's Chile golden age.

I'm giving it to Chile 1-0 or to penalties where Chile wins

You hit it on the nail.

 

[TabascoDiva]

I'd call him an imbecile for this reason: You can't logically state that a player needs an international trophy to be one of the greatest players of his generation or century or whatever. In any 20 year span there are only 2-4 countries from each continent that will win trophies. These are team achievements and based on many factors. Should Argentina win a trophy? The answer is maybe. But it's not based on if Messi is great. It's based on how their talent and coaching as a whole stack up against the talent and coaching of other countries competing at that time.

By this guy's logic Zlatan can never be great. Bale can never be great. Christiano Ronaldo can never be great. No one from England can ever be great. Some players cement their legends by carrying their teams to international trophies. Lots of great players play for teams that have no chance. And some great players play for teams that run up against brick walls for any number of reasons.

All 3 debaters had valid points and only time will prove them moronic imbecilic idiots. Keep in mind that most average fans only know the great players of their time. In my case I have no idea who is Zatlan. I do know about Pele yet I never saw Pele play, but since my early childhood my dad would idolize the guy. Fame Its all relative to the time you live in.

 

[CatNYC]

All 3 debaters had valid points and only time will prove them moronic imbecilic idiots. Keep in mind that most average fans only know the great players of their time. In my case I have no idea who is Zatlan. I do know about Pele yet I never saw Pele play, but since my early childhood my dad would idolize the guy. Fame Its all relative to the time you live in.

You know Zlatan.....you just don't know that you know Zlatan!

My mind went crazy thinking of all the links I could put in this post about him but since Messi is being discussed I'm adding the following pic taken this past season when Barca played Paris Saint-Germain in a Champions League match. Zlatan Ibrahimovic is an amazing footballer who is known for his outrageous comments as well as his skill. Google him, it will be entertaining. If you fall in love with him like I did....PSG is playing at Red Bulls Arena on July 21st.

 

[FootyLovin]

All 3 debaters had valid points and only time will prove them moronic imbecilic idiots. Keep in mind that most average fans only know the great players of their time. In my case I have no idea who is Zatlan. I do know about Pele yet I never saw Pele play, but since my early childhood my dad would idolize the guy. Fame Its all relative to the time you live in.

I'm sorry but no.

They were discussing why Messi achieved for club but not country.

Debater 1:

Messi has shined because of the company he keeps - he plays with other talented players around him,

This is true but irrelevant to their debate. It can be said of every star on a top side in the top 5 leagues. Doesn't say anything about why Messi has won trophies at Barca but not for Argentina.

Debater 2:

Barcelona) had developed a system of play around him and thus this is why he (Messy) shined. And when he plays at the national team level he is not called to duty at the qualification level and has very little opportunity to mesh with the national team and therefore the teammates do not read him well.

Totally valid possibility. Barca do play to Messi's strengths. That improves him on the field and makes the team better. And the lack of opportunity to mesh with him is important. Spain play ticka-tacka ball with most of their players playing at Barca. And what do you know? Spain win. Their players know the system and each other. Messi goes to Argentina and the system is totally different. Makes sense.

Debater 3:

if he failed at Chile 2016 to claim the title, Russia 2018 would be his last opportunity to be considered one of the best in the world of the 21st century.

First this has nothing to do with the question they were debating. So right off it is invalid to their debate.

Second these statements of a player on a team sport must win X team competition in order to be considered one of the greatest individual players are ridiculous.

Karl Malone and John Stockton. Dan Marino. Every Red Sox player for 80 years. (Ok. That one might be a bad example.) We could make a list 100 names long of all time great talents who didn't win their big game.

Third watch Messi play. You don't have to compare him to other generations. The debater didn't say #1 greatest of all time. He said Messi couldn't be on the list of greatest. The best of each generation go onto that list. Ask 100 football experts who goes on that list from the last 20 years and 99 will name Messi. The only one who won't is debater #3. And I return to my original thesis. If you are the only person in an enormous crowd disagreeing with everyone you are either a genius or an imbecile.

This guy is the latter.