Montreal Postmatch

[SoupInNYC]

Overall, I think it was an okay game for us. I do think we were a little bit lucky with the result. The Lampard goal was a freak occurrence, and Montreal was definitely dangerous throughout. They did come close to equalizing more than once before Lampard picked a new body part from which to score. Still, I certainly don't think we were any luckier to win than they were to draw against us earlier in the year - and, we still need a couple more good breaks before our luck evens out.

We are three games into the nine game gauntlet that I discussed on another thread, and we have 2 wins and 1 loss for 6 points. If we keep this up, we will finish top 2 in the conference with an easier playoff road, for sure.

I was about to throw things if we didn't score on that Lampard goal. Freaking 3v1 with Villa, Lampard, and Jack. Hell, we should have scored twice there.

I think Jack shouldn't have been so selfish and received the pass, then either shot it himself or laid if off to Frank, I don't think he expected the ball to land at his feet.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I think the rest of your argument is also too singleminded. You bash what you don't like with little recognition of what works.

My two cents is that among other things Mikey had the pass of the game that should have culminated in a better scoring chance than it did. If Pirlo had made the same pass we would all be talking about how regardless of his defense a play or two like that each game can turn the tide.

What pass do you mean? I know he had a big tackle, but I just don't recall a particular pass. Well, did he hit one to switch the field once? Maybe I do remember thinking he surprised me at one point with a good ball, but I don't recall the specifics.

As for the other, I get what he does. I just wish we didn't use it quite as often or had someone who coupled that with a bit of skill. Yesterday, it worked out okay because it was a perfect game to have someone run around and kick guys. When he's asked to do more, we've struggled immensely with any sort of possession.

To me, he plays like what I imagine NDJ played like his first time on a soccer field. Not professional first, actual first. All piss and vinegar and athleticism, but not much else.

 

[JayH]

What was the spoiled announcement for all the non French speakers

I could have sworn that I heard "le Forums Discussion de Stade" and something like "deux cent quatre vingt quatorze la page" (294 pages), and Le Fin (the end). There also seemed to be a reference to le Toe.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Maybe Allen is uncomfortable as a LB? Maybe the league has figured him out. Maybe he broke up with his girlfriend.

He's been noticeably worse the past few weeks.

Lopez does have a spot on this team as a super defensive sub to kill off games. He's like a chicken with his head cut off. I don't think his position is to replace Iraola. That was the wrong move. He lacks positional awareness. The right move was Bravo for Iraola. We finally settled down when Bravo came on.

Can check on the gf issue. She's a friend of a friend.

 

[Viewfrom226]

What a huge win. I think this shows how important it is in MLS to have guys who can clinically finish chances. The pace of the game and suspect quality of the defending is such that every match is going to have chances in both directions. An incredible number of them get squandered. But, we have now won several matches that could have gone either way but for the fact that our guys put away their opportunities. Other thoughts:

- I'm with others that I'm frustrated by the insistence on moving Allen out to LB (where he is not as good) and playing Hernandez and White at RB rather than giving Martinez a shot. It would be interested to hear PV's rationale for that in a candid moment though all we'd (rightly) get on that is coach-speak in all likelihood. I did think that White looked a bit better than Hernandez out there yesterday, though the bar was low and he had some horrible moments.

- Surprised he went to Lopez rather than Bravo when Iraola came off. Curious to see what happens if Iraola can't go on Sunday. I'm not a Lopez hater in a limited role, but watching him try to finish one good opportunity he had yesterday which would have put the match away was like watching a pitcher hit in baseball.

- The Lampard thing reached comical proportions yesterday, but I'm not complaining. In fairness, the goal against SKC was very well taken with his left foot.

- I'm equal parts excited about Mena's 1on1 defending and terrified by his passing this coming week against NYRB. But he really owned Oduro today in the first half.

 

[JayH]

As for our defense, it really needs to improve or we could see ourselves down 3-0 early in a playoff game to a team with better finishers. Hopefully, Chanot will be a game-changer, as he allows us to remove one of the other broken moving parts. For example, Ethan White should not see the field again, he really could have cost us 4 or 5 goals yesterday. From the glimpses I have seen of Diego Martinez, I honestly don't think he is the answer. As for Mena, PV may have to exclude him from the "play out of the back" formula and just let him play kick ball while utilizing his great 1v1 skills. When RJ slides back over to his more comfortable side, he should be fine. Maybe Mata can improve his positioning and ball-watching to be more reliable on the defensive side. Or maybe we will make one more move for a defensive stalwart.

This team has the makings of something very special, but that will depend a lot on the improvements on the back end.

 

[JayH]

Lampard now reminds me of the garbage-goal scoring hockey player. It really is hysterical. We should have a U Pick thread on here where you have to guess what body part Lampard will score with each week. I hope it continues. #whoneedsgolazos

 

[adam]

As for our defense, it really needs to improve or we could see ourselves down 3-0 early in a playoff game to a team with better finishers. Hopefully, Chanot will be a game-changer, as he allows us to remove one of the other broken moving parts. For example, Ethan White should not see the field again, he really could have cost us 4 or 5 goals yesterday. From the glimpses I have seen of Diego Martinez, I honestly don't think he is the answer. As for Mena, PV may have to exclude him from the "play out of the back" formula and just let him play kick ball while utilizing his great 1v1 skills. When RJ slides back over to his more comfortable side, he should be fine. Maybe Mata can improve his positioning and ball-watching to be more reliable on the defensive side. Or maybe we will make one more move for a defensive stalwart.

This team has the makings of something very special, but that will depend a lot on the improvements on the back end.

Which team would we play in the playoffs with better finishers? We've been beating our East competitors and they have not been finishing. Unless you're referring to the MLS Cup final?

 

[JayH]

Which team would we play in the playoffs with better finishers? We've been beating our East competitors and they have not been finishing. Unless you're referring to the MLS Cup final?

I am not saying that we can't and won't beat them, I'm saying that if you give Gio, or BWP, or CJ Sapong, or Drogba (notwithstanding last night), or Piatti unnecessary clear breakaways or easy sitters, they will punish you. I think that we have been lucky that more giveaways haven't been converted.

 

[mgarbowski]

Which team would we play in the playoffs with better finishers? We've been beating our East competitors and they have not been finishing. Unless you're referring to the MLS Cup final?

My concern would not be better overall finishers, but the same ones having a better day. Drogba and Oduro, for example, are fully capable of killing us with some of the chances they blew yesterday.

ETA: JayH beat me by seconds!

 

[Seven]

One other point I wanted to make after seeing a post in another thread. That pass from TMac to Villa on the first goal was good. It wasn't great, but it was good.

But the real play there was David Villa using his body against the defender to create the massive amount of space. Watching the little things he does is quite amazing.

His physicality and hold up play seem much improved this year. Seemed like last year he was always getting bodied off the ball. Obviously it still happens sometimes this year, but he has definitely adapted to the physical part of the league

 

[Rimil]

It could just be me, but I don't understand all the hate directed at Mikey. He's no Iraola, which is clear, but he's got his purpose on our team which is to be our midfield destroyer. He's got speed and plays more physical than his size. Yes, that yellow was careless, but that's his play style.

An argument could be made for bravo to be subbed in, but I thought Mikey did what was asked of him. I'm a fan of his play.

he has a role and he does it on the cheap. what's not to like. It's not like we built the team around him. He has a spot on the bench to smash. If he were better we'd have to pay more then you'd all be bitching why so much $$$ is rotting on the bench.

 

[Rimil]

THIS TEAM FUCKS

 

[Sabo]

Top 4 Teams in the East are NYCFC, NJRB, Impact and Union. To go to Montreal and pick up the 3 points was a massive result. We are playing like a team that can win the Conference Title and go to CCL -- even with our suspect defense.

We had a lot of unlucky results earlier this year (like the first Montreal game). Luck should even out during the season. This team is playing attractive winning soccer -- what a difference a year makes.

 

[The Toe]

Remember when we had to rely on Medhi Ballouchy for goals last year?

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

Definitely not the beautiful game we were starting to play earlier in the year. We are playing completely different than the possession football from earlier in the year. We used to link from back to front, and now it is lump it up to DV and jack and hope for the best.

RJ is and always has been much worse on the left, I hope forcing Mata out there with an injury won't haunt us. Excited to see what Chanot can bring, but will suck to break up the CB pairing again. Saunders stop of Drogba's FK was awesome, hands down. Credit to Saunders, he seems like a great guy, great teammate, and I have no idea about the details on that Shipp goal, but even if it was deflected, it wasn't deflected very much, so he wasn't in position for the ball in the first place.

Road win, I love it, but I remain concerned that a formation with no link to a CM is unsustainable. Villa is dropping deep to receive the ball in the position that our CM should be. Here's the avg player positions:


I think it shows in that we don't have the flow and resulting possession we were developing. The formation ends up as a 424, and we are dropping very deep when the opposing defense has the ball, we've given up any semblance of a press.

In the first 15 games of the season, with Mix or Lopez at CM, we had an average of 56% possession (58% if you remove the outliers of the Portland and TO games with Mix AND Lopez and Mix/Poku as CMs) In the past 6 games, we've had 47% posession (50% if you take out the outlier of the KC game) that is somewhere between a 11% to 6% drop depending on which numbers you like.

We are also creating 4.5 fewer shots per game in the past six games (15.5-11.1)

My conclusion is that if you love Frank's unconventional goals, that is fine, but we need to pull a player from somewhere else to link the back 6 to the front three. Frank should be a recessed forward or a very advanced CAM, with a CM behind him.

 

[roxfontaine]

We own the Canadians. That is all.

 

[Ulrich]

Definitely not the beautiful game we were starting to play earlier in the year. We are playing completely different than the possession football from earlier in the year. We used to link from back to front, and now it is lump it up to DV and jack and hope for the best.

RJ is and always has been much worse on the left, I hope forcing Mata out there with an injury won't haunt us. Excited to see what Chanot can bring, but will suck to break up the CB pairing again. Saunders stop of Drogba's FK was awesome, hands down. Credit to Saunders, he seems like a great guy, great teammate, and I have no idea about the details on that Shipp goal, but even if it was deflected, it wasn't deflected very much, so he wasn't in position for the ball in the first place.

Road win, I love it, but I remain concerned that a formation with no link to a CM is unsustainable. Villa is dropping deep to receive the ball in the position that our CM should be. Here's the avg player positions:

View attachment 5334
I think it shows in that we don't have the flow and resulting possession we were developing. The formation ends up as a 424, and we are dropping very deep when the opposing defense has the ball, we've given up any semblance of a press.

In the first 15 games of the season, with Mix or Lopez at CM, we had an average of 56% possession (58% if you remove the outliers of the Portland and TO games with Mix AND Lopez and Mix/Poku as CMs) In the past 6 games, we've had 47% posession (50% if you take out the outlier of the KC game) that is somewhere between a 11% to 6% drop depending on which numbers you like.

We are also creating 4.5 fewer shots per game in the past six games (15.5-11.1)

My conclusion is that if you love Frank's unconventional goals, that is fine, but we need to pull a player from somewhere else to link the back 6 to the front three. Frank should be a recessed forward or a very advanced CAM, with a CM behind him.

Dont underestimate that the team is still not 100% recovered from the NE/SKC Oven-matches. Those games, coupled with practice last week in similar conditions could have cooked the guys and recovery is slow-going.

Personally, my running last week was damn hard even though I was doing all the right things for recovery between. Not saying my recovery is apples-to-apples with theirs, but the heat isn't forgiving on a body's cardio system - and Montreal has been cooler than NYC so their players have likely had a better baseline. That could be why our midfield possession game was lagging?.?.?

I just hope that our guys can continue to recover appropriately this week so they can have a good spring to their steps and can boss RB in the midfield. As T Tom in Fairfield CT mentioned, we need the possession and we need those extra shots (although maybe some of the earlier shot were just Villa being trigger-happy and now he's passing to hold possession?).

 

[Paul]

I wasn't overly pleased with our performance (particularly the first 30 to 35 minutes or so), but overall I was satisfied with the team's performance on the road, even if it was against a depleted Montreal lineup -- they were basically missing their entire starting midfield as well as their top defender (maybe top defender in MLS?). As I mentioned in the shoutbox last night, it seemed like Montreal was content to give us possession in our own half and they waited until we crossed the midline to finally put any pressure on the ball. Over the past 6 weeks or so our opponents would try to use a high press, NJRB-style, and we became pretty good at dealing with that. Last night Montreal gave us the ball in our own half and dropped every player back into a defensive formation in our attacking third, forcing us to try to break them down. For the first 30 minutes or so we played right into their hands by moving the ball around very slowly and not playing the up tempo possession style we normally utilize. I was pretty disappointed with the effort we showed at the start of the match. Finally we broke through with a nice ball from T-Mac to Villa (the defender went after it too aggressively and Villa played him very well) and that goal seemed to be against the run of play to me even though we had a lot of possession to that point. After the goal Montreal had to come out of their defensive structure more and that benefitted us. Overall it was a solid 3 pts on the road against a team we could see in the playoffs. Defensively we are still prone to mental lapses that lead to soft goals. If we can get the defense sorted by the end of the regular season we could go far this year in the playoffs.

 

[JayH]

"Inside and out, see you later, take care, all right, between your legs, that's filthy, that's nasty." I am sure that Beavis and Butthead loved that call on the Harrison goal.