Are you talking about CCL? Shield doesn't get anything. MLS Cup and US Open Cup. Shield standings are important this year because of Toronto being favored to win the MLS Cup.
U.S. Open Cup 2017
- Thread starter Fantazma
- Start date
Thats true for the next two seasons. Then it goes back to the Shield Winner (as they are one of the division winners, and assuming an American team) getting one of the CCL spots.
If the US Open Cup is a "Major Trophy" - as was repeatedly stated by ESPN, then the Supporters Shield is as well. I don't even see how that can be debatable.
lol no....im not a pro/rel guy at all....but US open makes it an open tournament for many many american teams across the country and now many new amateur teams are signing up to enter it. its not only MLS. granted MLS has been winning this 99% of the time. this tournament predates MLS and has lots of history to it. This is our FA cup.
i personally love that there are amateur teams and other pro teams have a crack at a trophy aside from their own leagues. you get stories out of this here and there ( Christos FC, Cincy, and others).
The supporters shield just tells me who took advantage of their unbalanced MLS schedule
Yup, by 82 years (approx).
Don't get me wrong, I love the U.S. Open Cup, and I am glad it is getting more and more attention. It's a fun event, and it lets everyone participate; it has the same kind of drama that the NCAA Tournament has.
But the Supporters' Shield is a terrific achievement - just of the opposite kind. To survive a 34-game crucible as the top rated team means a lot. I think it certainly indicates who is the best team in the league, and it's not the kind of award that gets overturned due to one bad performance, bit of luck or official's call.
And I am pretty tired of hearing about the unbalanced schedule argument. First of all, as has been demonstrated elsewhere in these forums, a knockout tournament results in much greater differences in teams played than a full season with two conferences. Second, the effect is much smaller than people would believe. Go back and look at the last several years. Which outcomes at the top of the table would really have changed with identical schedules? Probably the one the Red Bulls won in 2015. Maybe the one they got in 2013. That's it for this decade. The large majority of the time the schedule didn't determine anything.
The point being that there is room for more than one trophy worth chasing. That's one of the things that more fun about soccer. The MLS Cup is the big prize, but the other two are major awards for American teams too.
MLS the corporate entity cares so little about the Supporters Shield that it has an entire section devoted to it on its standings page and routinely refers to it in articles on its own website.
I think you're being a little harsh. And I also think I'd go bananas if we won it.
the fact that there are playoffs kills the whole point of being "the best league team". you not the champion. ...should you get homefield advantage in playoffs etc...yes thats fine, you already get a bye ( sort of)
to me it does not matter what stats and percentages and what results have said...you dont have balanced schedule therefore is not representative of it being best in the league....the fact that you mention the RB Supporters shields as being influenced by the unbalanced schedules proves its not 100% valid to say "they are best in the league" when they may have played someone one extra time ( maybe it was us that year in 2015
) this is not a trophy worth chasing since you are not a champion of anything ...MLS cup and US open cup winners crown you being "best" in the country or the sole survivor of MLS year including playoffs. the 34 game league is only a phase of the MLS calendar year...being the best doesnt guarantee anything ( well a CCL spot but thats inactive until 2019)
you have two cups you want...the other can potentially take care of if you try to get your best position for the playoffs.
i wont lie if we win the shield and it comes to the supporters ill take a shot out of it, take a picture ( or whatever people do with this) and then after that its basically fuck the shield we need the cup
thats it really. im not crying that toronto has the lead in SS run. i want the players back healthy to try and make a run in the playoffs
the Star that stays in your emblem forever because you are champion is for MLS cup, not the shield.
Davo15
Registered
Don't rate the supporters shield much at all in a league with an unbalanced schedule and a playoff system it's just not very meaningful as much other than an enhancer . Its basically the same thing as the presidents trophy it means next to nothing on its own but it's a tiny bit something else to pound your chest over how great a season you had if you do go on to win Mls cup. If you win supporters shield and not Mls cup your essentially chokers , that's how it's seen in America anyway .
Well, it's this exact thing that makes people value the Shield. Because the MLS Cup does not at all mean you're the best at anything, it only means you've won four games in a row after the season's over. It has nothing to do with who's best as the best team could get eliminated by one divot in the field or by one bad ref call. And the Open Cup is usually won by an MLS team, because they're generally the best in the country. But if Cinti had won this year would that mean they're the best in the country, or only that they had a great run through the tournament and beat New Jersey and then won one more game? Would that have made them the best team in the country?
Same with this year's MLS Cup. Assuming everything was exactly the same as it is today, Toronto is clearly the best team in the league this year (I know, arguable, but whatevs, that's not the point). If they get knocked out in the second round does that suddenly mean their whole season meant nothing? Not really. All it means is that they're the best team this year and maybe there was a really unlucky bounce that one time.
You say the season means nothing except playoff seeding, I say the MLS Cup means nothing except who gets lucky enough to win four in a row in the fall.
Davo15
Registered
But it's not really subjective. Under the current system MLS Cup is infinitely more important than the Supporters shield. I do mostly agree (coming from a soccer background like most of us) that a points system without play offs is a more fair indicator of being the best (Though it would have to be a on am everyone plays am even schedule format) BUT as long as we have a play off system all that regular season counts for is qualifying for the play offs and seeding therein. People will remember who the cup champion is pretty much no one (unless it's your team) remembers who won the Supporters Shield in any given year.
Nevertheless, Toronto is the best team in MLS this year, and that will be true whether they win MLS Cup or not. Once you're in the playoffs, anyone can win. Winning MLS Cup in no way indicates which team in the league is the best, but we've all been able to see that Toronto *is* the best this year, and they will take the shield unless they fall off a cliff during the run-in.
Yes, yes, imbalanced schedule, etc., but maybe because I never gave a shit about any sports before soccer in my mind the highest point total is the winner and the playoffs are just a "requirement" of being in an American sports league. Do I want to win MLS Cup? Of course. Do I want to win the SS? Also of course. Neither of them by themselves indicates which team is the best, of course, because they're both flawed systems.
tl;dr: The SS is meaningful and the Cup is meaningful and neither of them is the complete story.
Then why is the financial reward for the shield literally 1/10th the financial reward of the cup?
MLS uses the fan given shield as a free media event and a method to help push alternative dramatic storylines. They do not give one singe shit about it in a meaningful matter. It's important only in the sense that it can drive marginal viewership, which is why it was the first thing dropped for the CCL realignment.
I'm not sure I get the arguments of those who say that the SS is tainted by the unbalanced schedule and the MLS Cup is the true method of defining the best team. Surely if that is the case then the MLS Cup must also be tainted by the unbalanced schedule, since qualification to said Cup is done via the tainted SS standings?
I thought it might have produced a different response from me but I've got to admit that after almost three full seasons of actively following MLS results my attention still drops right off when NYCFC are eliminated from the playoffs. I don't think I could tell you who won them the last two years. But then that's just me.
I thought it might have produced a different response from me but I've got to admit that after almost three full seasons of actively following MLS results my attention still drops right off when NYCFC are eliminated from the playoffs. I don't think I could tell you who won them the last two years. But then that's just me.
Somehow this thread has diverted from a comparison of the Supporters' Shield to the US Open Cup and became a comparison of the Supporters' Shield to the MLS Cup.
Regarding the later, I don't think there is much to debate.
1. The MLS Cup is the more prestigious trophy and the one that all teams and almost all fans would prefer to win.
2. The Supporters' Shield is the more accurate test of which team is the league's best.
Does anyone disagree with either of those?
Regarding the later, I don't think there is much to debate.
1. The MLS Cup is the more prestigious trophy and the one that all teams and almost all fans would prefer to win.
2. The Supporters' Shield is the more accurate test of which team is the league's best.
Does anyone disagree with either of those?
I think this is exactly where I stand. The MLS Cup is the most important and prestigious trophy because that is generally how American sports go, but also because the league and teams have bought into it. So at the end of the day, that is the ultimate prize.
The Supporters Shield is still a massive achievement that is worth recognition. I love shitting on RB fans because they haven't won a cup, and will still do so, but to discount the Shield as a "participation trophy" is a bit ridiculous and reaching IMO.
End of the day, I'll take MLS Cup over SS hands down. But winning the SS is something I would also be proud of.
so then tell me five years ago who was the best? Were they the best? do you remember how glorious they were compared to the actual MLS cup champion? case and point no one even on TV or blogs is mentioning oh hey what a great team that shield winner team X was that won the shield (unless they win the MLS cup) ...many just say oh hey team X also won that shield that was it just a little FYI point. i even seen articles where i see the SS as just a consolation prize to those that did not win the MLS cup.
if you guys all really love the shield so much then dont watch the playoffs then....we all know toronto was the best team this year....who cares who wins the MLS cup and is declared champion of 2017.
ill end my rant here....to me as long as playoffs exist the MLS cup winner is the true survivor and best team of the whole year no matter how shitty they may have played....its irrelevant who was the "best" just a month or so earlier.
ill still love MLS cup and US open cup much more than the Shield....ill still shit on the shield even if we win it...since at the end of the day its the MLS cup that declares you the champion
