2017 Roster Discussion

I wouldn't call it a failure. He had a rough finish to the season but I doubt anyone here would call Pirlo a failure. Think you're on your own there.
T Tom in Fairfield CT You sure have me wondering WTF?? Cause in some of your replies you praise Andrea up that as quick tear him down . I'd sure like to pin tour thoughts down once and for all ! I don't think I'm to on my own when I see those who continuously call Andrea weak and ineffective ! What's that ? Sounds like a failure to me.
 
T Tom in Fairfield CT You sure have me wondering WTF?? Cause in some of your replies you praise Andrea up that as quick tear him down . I'd sure like to pin tour thoughts down once and for all ! I don't think I'm to on my own when I see those who continuously call Andrea weak and ineffective ! What's that ? Sounds like a failure to me.
Angela, players are judged on performance. If they perform well they're praised. If hey perform poorly they're scorned. It's quite simple for us as we have little to no emotional attachment. So I can say Pirlo had an ok season. An amazing game here and there and played poorly in the playoffs. That's all there is to it.
 
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Thought experiment time.

What if the $6mm salary was really a new franchise gift to the fans? What is the decision making logic that goes into the next DP salary? AKA who says we have to be one of the top spenders in the league?

The first thing we need to examine is what CFG's goals are for their soccer teams.

Goal number 1: Make money after everything is said and done.

Goal number 2: Completely irrelevant. (Goal two is actually to win titles)

Looking at this logically, from a CFG perspective, at what point does marginal star power exceed marginal player utility?

I'd argue that marginal star power vs player utility is maximized at around the two "star" DP mark. If you look at MLS publications and r/MLS people are very careful to not say all three NYCFC DP's in the same post/article. Having that third legendary player does nothing else to get your team into the discussion, it does however cost a rather large amount of money compared to the on field product.

So what happens if we don't care about the name of our last DP, but only care about his soccer playing ability?

For the sake of ease I'm going to say you only need to double the salary of a player to lure him to MLS.

Well if we don't care about the name and only care about a players marginal contributions to the team's ability to win games, we can happily exclude the premier league. They overpay for talent like money is going out of style. The happy medium in this scenario is probably a Bundesliga player who can speak some moderate English already.

This player will by necessity be around 26-27 years of age and likely would be starting at a lower table Bundesliga club. He's reached the height of his ability and will probably not improve enough to make any real moves. This is your top flight journeyman. Lets assume that he's bang on average for that league, makes around $1.5mm euros a year and isn't really important enough to merit any real sponsorship's.

Lets also assume that this player is smart enough to realize that his salary isn't really going to get much larger, and for someone like him life after soccer probably will not involve coaching, or soccer in any real meaningful financial sense. This player is literally, dime a dozen.

But if he comes to MLS, hes automatically going to be one of the best players in the league. Giovinco after all was just an above average Serie A player, with occasional delusions of international soccer. We're not aiming that high.

So we bring our average replacement in and offer him $3.2mm just about enough to double his current salary. He gets to be the star he always dreamed of being, and probably can get some better sponsorship's in the US. Meanwhile hes the class of the pitch and has a real chance of life after soccer in the US being financially meaningfully tied to the business of soccer.

Better part of this deal from the CFG perspective, your not offering it to some special snowflake, your offering it to the most average guy around. And your making it known that who specifically signs the deal isn't that important from a CFG perspective, as long as they meet certain traits. This gives CFG increased bargaining power.

While I'd like to get another $6mm player, I'd really like it a lot, being realistic our revenues are not covering costs. And you only really need two famous players around at one time anyway, your not getting the full benefit of your money from three in terms of drawing people to the team. Paying someone much less known, in the prime of their career, about half of what we pay our DP's now, could have a really significant impact on the team's ability to win.

That said, can we please have another $6mm player NYCFC people who are reading this?

Also I believe that CFG actually hit on something that was totally overlooked in US soccer, entirely by accident. If you want Mexican fans you don't buy Mexican players, you buy SPANISH players. I noticed how many Mexican fans we have, and I mean Mexican not just people south of the border, and I can't help but think that its David Villa drawing them here. If you go to Mexico the high level soccer they watch isn't Liga MX, its La Liga.

We accidentally figured out what has vexed MLS for 20 years, how to get Mexican-Americans to watch MLS. Sign famous people from La Liga. This is why I have absolute faith that Iniesta or someone who's played at Barca is coming here, because it has the potential to make NYCFC the favored team for the large Mexican population in the US.

Back to my main point for the close, its entirely likely that CFG make a very rational choice, concerning the third DP spot, and we get a much cheaper player. Who's paradoxically going to improve the on field product more than an expensive player. Though a Giovinco type player would be nice, its probably not going to happen.
 
Back to my main point for the close, its entirely likely that CFG make a very rational choice, concerning the third DP spot, and we get a much cheaper player. Who's paradoxically going to improve the on field product more than an expensive player. Though a Giovinco type player would be nice, its probably not going to happen.
I completely agree here. You can get a much better MLS QUALITY player for less than a STAR POWER player and get more out of him. We need someone young and fast to help our midfield.
 
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Angela, players are judged on performance. If they perform well they're praised. If hey perform poorly they're scorned. It's quite simple for us as we have little to no emotional attachment. So I can say Pirlo had an ok season. An amazing game here and there and played poorly in the playoffs. That's all there is to it.
Oh I like this ! Always the eye opener Boss ! Yes how true about the emotional thing! This is why I totally have such a like for Tommy Mac . I can relax with him cause I'm not in love with him . I get to just enjoy him with out complication . So Yes Boss ! but I still would like Tom's thoughts . Thanks !
 
Oh I like this ! Always the eye opener Boss ! Yes how true about the emotional thing! This is why I totally have such a like for Tommy Mac . I can relax with him cause I'm not in love with him . I get to just enjoy him with out complication . So Yes Boss ! but I still would like Tom's thoughts . Thanks !
Mr Keith Putnam Daniele de Rossi HOLY CRAP !! This Would Blow my Andrea loving mind ! NickA NickA can you see this happening ?

WELL PEOPLE I Will inform this Forum that Mr De Rossi is said to have property in upstate NY and has expressed his wishes to come over in interviews. Andrea would be Over The Fkn Moon for this !! TRUST ME when I say He'd be a different player ! You People have no idea what this would do for Andrea! He'd have his Best Buddy and make the girlfriend happy ! Shit Finally all the Stars would align themselves in Andrea's world !!

This would be a nice little band aid for the Team but not solve it's problem long term ! So Boss aka NYCFC_Dan NYCFC_Dan could you and other's on this Jury I mean forum take 2 Italians ??

De Rossi is one of my favorites and yes he does have ties to the states. I saw a British interview recently and he made reference that he was working on his English. He's always said good things about America. If he was trolling our midfield it would instantly turn us into a tough team.

Oh and speaking of T Tom in Fairfield CT...I heard a rumor he was outside Trump Tower protesting Pirlo with a 'Make Midfield Young Again' sign!
 
De Rossi is one of my favorites and yes he does have ties to the states. I saw a British interview recently and he made reference that he was working on his English. He's always said good things about America. If he was trolling our midfield it would instantly turn us into a tough team.

Oh and speaking of T Tom in Fairfield CT...I heard a rumor he was outside Trump Tower protesting Pirlo with a 'Make Midfield Young Again' sign!
OMG NickA NickA You get a Goal no that's not a Goal it's a GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL for being a true smart ass ! Trump Tower Good One !! :p
 
We chose Mix over a guy who had Champions League experience and made less - Sacha Klejstan
 
We chose Mix over a guy who had Champions League experience and made less - Sacha Klejstan

At what point was Klejstan ever on the table? I was under the impression he was locked up tight with his RB contract.
 
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T Tom in Fairfield CT You sure have me wondering WTF?? Cause in some of your replies you praise Andrea up that as quick tear him down . I'd sure like to pin tour thoughts down once and for all ! I don't think I'm to on my own when I see those who continuously call Andrea weak and ineffective ! What's that ? Sounds like a failure to me.
I think pirlo is a transcendent player that is not the right fit for an MLS team. Vieira got a lot out of him for about 12 games and it was great to see, but I think we'd be a better team with a different midfielder. I'll probably never forget his pass to villa last year for the goal vs DC.
 
Forum members have little to no emotional attachment to their players? Have you met LionNYC LionNYC , President of the Mix hat trick association?

The organization has had a re-branding recently. I'm not the President of the Free Mix Diskerud Association. We're a non-profit organized to free Mix Diskerud to allow him to play soccer and get minutes on the field.
 
Thought experiment time.

What if the $6mm salary was really a new franchise gift to the fans? What is the decision making logic that goes into the next DP salary? AKA who says we have to be one of the top spenders in the league?

The first thing we need to examine is what CFG's goals are for their soccer teams.

Goal number 1: Make money after everything is said and done.

Goal number 2: Completely irrelevant. (Goal two is actually to win titles)

Looking at this logically, from a CFG perspective, at what point does marginal star power exceed marginal player utility?

I'd argue that marginal star power vs player utility is maximized at around the two "star" DP mark. If you look at MLS publications and r/MLS people are very careful to not say all three NYCFC DP's in the same post/article. Having that third legendary player does nothing else to get your team into the discussion, it does however cost a rather large amount of money compared to the on field product.

So what happens if we don't care about the name of our last DP, but only care about his soccer playing ability?

For the sake of ease I'm going to say you only need to double the salary of a player to lure him to MLS.

Well if we don't care about the name and only care about a players marginal contributions to the team's ability to win games, we can happily exclude the premier league. They overpay for talent like money is going out of style. The happy medium in this scenario is probably a Bundesliga player who can speak some moderate English already.

This player will by necessity be around 26-27 years of age and likely would be starting at a lower table Bundesliga club. He's reached the height of his ability and will probably not improve enough to make any real moves. This is your top flight journeyman. Lets assume that he's bang on average for that league, makes around $1.5mm euros a year and isn't really important enough to merit any real sponsorship's.

Lets also assume that this player is smart enough to realize that his salary isn't really going to get much larger, and for someone like him life after soccer probably will not involve coaching, or soccer in any real meaningful financial sense. This player is literally, dime a dozen.

But if he comes to MLS, hes automatically going to be one of the best players in the league. Giovinco after all was just an above average Serie A player, with occasional delusions of international soccer. We're not aiming that high.

So we bring our average replacement in and offer him $3.2mm just about enough to double his current salary. He gets to be the star he always dreamed of being, and probably can get some better sponsorship's in the US. Meanwhile hes the class of the pitch and has a real chance of life after soccer in the US being financially meaningfully tied to the business of soccer.

Better part of this deal from the CFG perspective, your not offering it to some special snowflake, your offering it to the most average guy around. And your making it known that who specifically signs the deal isn't that important from a CFG perspective, as long as they meet certain traits. This gives CFG increased bargaining power.

While I'd like to get another $6mm player, I'd really like it a lot, being realistic our revenues are not covering costs. And you only really need two famous players around at one time anyway, your not getting the full benefit of your money from three in terms of drawing people to the team. Paying someone much less known, in the prime of their career, about half of what we pay our DP's now, could have a really significant impact on the team's ability to win.

That said, can we please have another $6mm player NYCFC people who are reading this?

Also I believe that CFG actually hit on something that was totally overlooked in US soccer, entirely by accident. If you want Mexican fans you don't buy Mexican players, you buy SPANISH players. I noticed how many Mexican fans we have, and I mean Mexican not just people south of the border, and I can't help but think that its David Villa drawing them here. If you go to Mexico the high level soccer they watch isn't Liga MX, its La Liga.

We accidentally figured out what has vexed MLS for 20 years, how to get Mexican-Americans to watch MLS. Sign famous people from La Liga. This is why I have absolute faith that Iniesta or someone who's played at Barca is coming here, because it has the potential to make NYCFC the favored team for the large Mexican population in the US.

Back to my main point for the close, its entirely likely that CFG make a very rational choice, concerning the third DP spot, and we get a much cheaper player. Who's paradoxically going to improve the on field product more than an expensive player. Though a Giovinco type player would be nice, its probably not going to happen.
I've posted this before, but it's been awhile and I don't think you were here/active back then.

I like your analysis, but I think you have your premise wrong. CFG's number one goal isn't to make money. It's to bring a global platform for positive branding and attention to the myriad business interests of the royal family and the family/UAE itself. I'd add speculatively "and not lose a shitload of money while doing it", but I don't know if whatever loss they operate at could ever really dent their coffers meaningfully.

So on that front, it may or may not change the rest of your argument. But I think the question is what is more valuable/best return on investment: a big name to trot out, a championship-competitive squad, or some blend of both. I'm going to guess it's the latter choice because that makes me most intrigued.
 
Football Italia interview with Pirlo. Can't really get a read on what he wants to do. Posting whole thing so no one has to redirect...not sure if that's "frowned upon".

Andrea Pirlo confirms “I’ll stay involved in football” when he leaves New York City FC, and reflects on his time at Inter.

The regista has spent the past two seasons playing in MLS after leaving Juventus, but it’s not clear if the 37-year-old will play another season in America.

“After a 20-year career at the highest level, you feel the need to get away from that and have fun playing football, but with less stress,” Pirlo told Marca Plus of his decision to move to Major League Soccer.

“It was all planned. Once I reached an insurmountable level of stress, when mentally I’d have felt stuck, I had the clarity of thought to say ‘enough’.

“That moment came after the Champions League final with Barcelona.

“When I leave NYCFC? I think I’ll stay involved in football, because it’s the only thing I know how to do. Football is my life, so I’d like to be a director or something like that.”

Pirlo also discussed his career in Italy, starting with his local side, Brescia, and moving to Inter, the club he supported as a child.

“Roberto Baggio? He was my idol. For a young lad it’s a dream to play with your idol and I managed to make that happen.

“From the moment I knew I had the chance of training with him I was impatient. I couldn’t wait.

“Inter? I arrived at a difficult time for the club, which had such a big turnover of players and Coaches in those days.

“They were my favourite team though, and to be able to play there was a dream. For me, it was the greatest.

“It was the first time I’d left home, but it wasn’t traumatic because Milan is still quite close to Brescia. I was away from the family, but an hour’s drive isn’t such a big deal.

“I was 18 and I was ready to have that experience. Unfortunately though I couldn’t find consistency and I preferred to leave.”

Not only did Pirlo leave, he signed for city rivals Milan…

“These things happen. It happened with me and it happened with others too, it’s nothing special. Inter had no confidence in me and I wanted to try something new at Milan.

“I knew that I was going to a club full of champions, and I slowly managed to find space. I was convinced of my ability and what I could offer on the pitch. I just needed a chance to show it.

“How did Carlo Ancelotti convince me to play deeper? When I played forward my style of play wasn’t to score goals, but to help the team play football.

“I wasn’t selfish and only thinking about scoring, I preferred to help my teammates do it. For me the key thing was to get the ball and be at the centre of the play.

“Before they [Italians clubs] preferred a more defensive player, with the task of winning the ball and not building the play.

“We tried to do something different and it went well. From then on others changed their style of play.

“Ancelotti is a great person and an amazing Coach. It’s a pleasure to talk to him. He’s like one of the family and that’s what all the players want.”

The veteran also discussed the 2005 Champions League final, when Milan blew a 3-0 lead to lose on penalties to Liverpool.

“I remember at half-time we didn’t talk very much,” Pirlo recalled.

“When you’re winning 3-0 all you can do is to say that you need to remain focused. We had chances to score more goals, then we conceded three to Liverpool in seven mintues.

“It was a unique game, and unfortunately it happened to me. It was, without a doubt, the hardest defeat of my career.”

Link https://goo.gl/VV3Ppq
 
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Football Italia interview with Pirlo. Can't really get a read on what he wants to do. Posting whole thing so no one has to redirect...not sure if that's "frowned upon".



Link https://goo.gl/VV3Ppq
I just put it in quote tags. Google has a tendency to drop sites that copy content. Usually if you wrap it in code it's fine
 
I just put it in quote tags. Google has a tendency to drop sites that copy content. Usually if you wrap it in code it's fine

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