2018 Roster Discussion

[Fantazma]

The fallacy of your comment is that Giovinco doesn’t play defense, unless you consider fouling defense, and yet his team being a man down (two men if you count Giovinco not playing defense) were able to stymie NYCFC and pulled 2 goals back. Yes we had a shit keeper as part of the equation, but having a forward play defense is *not* a mandatory tactic in soccer. Dome needs to use his players according to their skill sets. A chef doesn’t make lemonade if he only has berries and spinach, but he may make an amazing juice that’s equally satisfying.

i was not able to watch game, so i think its more us sucking like vs vancouver than anything else. However, the modern trend is that coaches have everyone chip in on defense. its not required but for sure its what lots coaches seem to like these days. Hell, i remember reading articles and such of Riquelme and how some may have issues with coaches these days since he never tried to play defence not even to try get ball he just lost, he would just wait till he got it back. its a moderns trend these days

 

[Ulrich]

Let me know when Lewis starts hitting free kicks like Giovinco or generally performing offensively like Giovinco.

Well, free-kicks versus defending is a false-equivalency.

And Gio doesn’t have the same G/A per 90 that Lewis has.

 

[Ulrich]

It's different though comparing Lewis to Giovinco. Gio is essentially a second striker who floats around behind Jozy, and without Jozy (red card) basically became the striker. Strikers are responsible for putting some pressure on the CBs on defense.

Lewis is a winger, and therefore has different responsibilities. With more and more outside backs (LB/RB) pushing forward to send in crosses, our own RB can't defend both a winger and an outside back, both positions that have a lot more offensive skill than a CB. When a winger misses a defensive duty, it is more likely to be punished. If I'm giving up defensive coverage, I'm fine with allowing a lumbering CB more time on the ball than an outside player (winger/back) the ability to send in a cross or take on our RB 2 v 1.

That's the difference.

In a three forward system, the wings definitely have defensive responsibility, but to call out Lewis and not Medina or Isi (he missed some marks last match) is wearing cloudy glasses. Should Lewis do more, yes, but he’s being crucified for problems others routinely make. Plus, the analogy to Gio is fair because a position can have dramatically different responsibilities on offense and defense compared to the “norms” - that’s why we play one formation on offense and drop into a separate formation on defense.

i was not able to watch game, so i think its more us sucking like vs vancouver than anything else. However, the modern trend is that coaches have everyone chip in on defense. its not required but for sure its what lots coaches seem to like these days. Hell, i remember reading articles and such of Riquelme and how some may have issues with coaches these days since he never tried to play defence not even to try get ball he just lost, he would just wait till he got it back. its a moderns trend these days

The crazy thing about a trend is that it doesn’t last forever..... the way progress is made is to find a way to exploit the trend and do something different. Happens all the time with formations - no reason it can’t and doesn’t happen with player/team tactics and responsibilities.

 

[Fantazma]

In a three forward system, the wings definitely have defensive responsibility, but to call out Lewis and not Medina or Isi (he missed some marks last match) is wearing cloudy glasses. Should Lewis do more, yes, but he’s being crucified for problems others routinely make. Plus, the analogy to Gio is fair because a position can have dramatically different responsibilities on offense and defense compared to the “norms” - that’s why we play one formation on offense and drop into a separate formation on defense.


The crazy thing about a trend is that it doesn’t last forever..... the way progress is made is to find a way to exploit the trend and do something different. Happens all the time with formations - no reason it can’t and doesn’t happen with player/team tactics and responsibilities.

it doesnt, but if dome wants it, he will go for it. no matter how outdated it is if its getting results (even with ugly play). especially since the guy has only got here like a month ago, hes in a sink or swim position. he is learning about his players as he goes and he thinks that lewis still needs to learn to get back defending as he wants him too.

 

[Ulrich]

it doesnt, but if dome wants it, he will go for it. no matter how outdated it is if its getting results (even with ugly play). especially since the guy has only got here like a month ago, hes in a sink or swim position. he is learning about his players as he goes and he thinks that lewis still needs to learn to get back defending as he wants him too.

And you completely missed my point.....

It’s as I’ve been saying all through this thread, use the players you’ve got by maximizing their skills and protecting their weaknesses - who cares what the “trends” are, who cares what other clubs do, develop a tactic based on the players, and don’t force players to perform in ways they aren’t capable. If Pep always did what was expected, he’d never have converted Sterling into a striker, or used a 2defender system when attacking (244/253), or introduced inverted FBs to the EPL.

We have a golden-child on offense who makes shit happen when he plays yet he occasionally zones out a on dead ball defensive plays.... anybody that says that’s enough to jettison him has never paid attention to MLS where offense is king (follow the money trail on which positions get paid) and defense, while not ignored, is not as critical. Figure out a way to get the kid on the field with fewer responsibilities- he’s perfect for a 2-forward setup or as the Firminio-type CF who is more of a playmaker.

 

[dummyrun]

Lewis doesn't play defense. It's that simple. Puts a lot of pressure on whomever is behind him.

Someone had mentioned Sands playing as an inverted Fullback - maybe dummyrun - sounds like that may come to fruition.

It was actually Sands himself who brought it up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1024649149088714752

 

[Fantazma]

And you completely missed my point.....

It’s as I’ve been saying all through this thread, use the players you’ve got by maximizing their skills and protecting their weaknesses - who cares what the “trends” are, who cares what other clubs do, develop a tactic based on the players, and don’t force players to perform in ways they aren’t capable. If Pep always did what was expected, he’d never have converted Sterling into a striker, or used a 2defender system when attacking (244/253), or introduced inverted FBs to the EPL.

We have a golden-child on offense who makes shit happen when he plays yet he occasionally zones out a on dead ball defensive plays.... anybody that says that’s enough to jettison him has never paid attention to MLS where offense is king (follow the money trail on which positions get paid) and defense, while not ignored, is not as critical. Figure out a way to get the kid on the field with fewer responsibilities- he’s perfect for a 2-forward setup or as the Firminio-type CF who is more of a playmaker.

hes a pro, he has to do his best to do whatever coach is asking him to do. depends what dome wants, maybe doesnt want offense only players and wants him to help Tinnerholm ( or whoever is at RB), now if coach is setting him up to fail is another matter but so far he is under two coaches where one tells us what the "problem" is. i dont know what PV thought of him.

lol i dont know if firminio type player since lewis plays on wing, and im not calling him playmaker. however because he is offensive threat, he should be in 18, super sub, but not an automatic starter. castellanos was brought in so now hes farther down the list.

 

[Kjbert]

Well, free-kicks versus defending is a false-equivalency.

And Gio doesn’t have the same G/A per 90 that Lewis has.

So your argument is that Jonathan Lewis is as good or better than Sebastian Giovinco.

 

[Ulrich]

So your argument is that Jonathan Lewis is as good or better than Sebastian Giovinco.

You are way smarter than that to even pose that question - that’s kindergarten trolling and you know it.

 

[NickA]

You are way smarter than that to even pose that question - that’s kindergarten trolling and you know it.

It's really a non-argument. One is a starter, one hardly sees the pitch. One is a winger, one is a CF.

That being said, it's coaching tactic dependent on whether the winger is supposed to stay forward, press the line, help on the defensive side, etc.

Obviously he is not doing what is expected from Vieira/Dome or we'd see him much more. He is talented but lacks something. He doesn't seem to have that drive that Jack had. That's what my eye sees and that's who I compare him to.

 

[Ulrich]

It's really a non-argument. One is a starter, one hardly sees the pitch. One is a winger, one is a CF.

That being said, it's coaching tactic dependent on whether the winger is supposed to stay forward, press the line, help on the defensive side, etc.

Obviously he is not doing what is expected from Vieira/Dome or we'd see him much more. He is talented but lacks something. He doesn't seem to have that drive that Jack had. That's what my eye sees and that's who I compare him to.

His question was not even close to what I was positing.

 

[Kjbert]

His question was not even close to what I was positing.

Then what are you positing?

 

[Annagram]

Here's a translation of Ring's interview at the Transfermarkt the other day:
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/96q76y/new_york_city_fcs_alexander_ring_a_transfer_to/

It seems he doesn't think he'll finish his career with NYCFC, but is aiming at returning to Europe. Interesting how high he values the MLS, saying how better clubs could compete in the Bundesliga.

 

[Ulrich]

Then what are you positing?

I don’t know how to readily link a forum post from a mobile, but scroll up a few and you’ll see one to Fantazma that summarizes it. It’s actually three posts above your trolling post question.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Here's a translation of Ring's interview at the Transfermarkt the other day:
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/96q76y/new_york_city_fcs_alexander_ring_a_transfer_to/

It seems he doesn't think he'll finish his career with NYCFC, but is aiming at returning to Europe. Interesting how high he values the MLS, saying how better clubs could compete in the Bundesliga.

Finally. A real post.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Here's a translation of Ring's interview at the Transfermarkt the other day:
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/96q76y/new_york_city_fcs_alexander_ring_a_transfer_to/

It seems he doesn't think he'll finish his career with NYCFC, but is aiming at returning to Europe. Interesting how high he values the MLS, saying how better clubs could compete in the Bundesliga.

This is a good article and a worthy read. Plus, it has the following tidbit.

"We Scandinavians have a special weakness for such metropolises anyway," says the 27-year-old former lute player who has been playing for the NYCFC in the "Big Apple" for over a year.​

Now, that may just be an idiom, but I really hope not.

 

[Fake Jew]

Sounds like agent talk to me.

 

[JohnB]

It appears from Reddit that Sands has been loaned to Louisville City. I wound think with the ability to be called back, good to see they’re getting minutes somewhere.

 

[Ulrich]

It appears from Reddit that Sands has been loaned to Louisville City. I wound think with the ability to be called back, good to see they’re getting minutes somewhere.

As long as he's starting, this is great. If he rides the bench like Harrison did at 'Boro, then a waste.

With this being the 2nd loan (that we know of) behind SAS, it seems the FO is finally making an attempt to get guys minutes rather than rotting on the bench or in street clothes. Sad that it's taken this long - Sands hasn't played all year save for the Cup match, so why not have loaned him out earlier unless they were counting on him for a run of Cup games (lol), or because they really assumed he would get minutes (doubtful based on how the roster has been used, ie TMac and Awuah).

 

[Fantazma]

It appears from Reddit that Sands has been loaned to Louisville City. I wound think with the ability to be called back, good to see they’re getting minutes somewhere.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1029436473748025344

EDIT: There he is number 8