2018 Roster Discussion

[sbrylski]

No team in this league sells players frequently or effectively. The history of league sales have been random one-offs. We are not a selling league. We buy, then buy more because we have to keep up with everyone else. Salary cap and generally weak academy results league-wide (relative to the global marketplace) means we never have too much depth to sell from.

Who would you sell high on this winter if you were Reyna? Sweat? Ibeagha? They're valuable to us as Americans. Chanot? How much would we really get for him? Probably not enough to pay for his replacement. ITS might be a sell high candidate, but there would be a riot from the fanbase and we have no goalscoring depth.

I think Reyna is being unfairly judged here.

EDIT: Also, this is exactly what recent signings like Medina and Castellanos are supposed to be for. Starting a pipeline from SA of buy-low and sell-high young players. That was absolutely the plan with Harrison from the beginning too, not sure why Reyna isn't getting credit for it. Unless he only gets credit for selling players somewhere they *don't* want to go, lol.

 

[SoupInNYC]

No team in this league sells players frequently or effectively. The history of league sales have been random one-offs. We are not a selling league. We buy, then buy more because we have to keep up with everyone else. Salary cap and generally weak academy results league-wide (relative to the global marketplace) means we never have too much depth to sell from.

Who would you sell high on this winter if you were Reyna? Sweat? Ibeagha? They're valuable to us as Americans. Chanot? How much would we really get for him? Probably not enough to pay for his replacement. ITS might be a sell high candidate, but there would be a riot from the fanbase and we have no goalscoring depth.

I think Reyna is being unfairly judged here.

Agreed. I think ITS would really be the only candidate to possibly sell high from the current roster. Others that could be considered and why it won't happen listed below:

• You mentioned Sweat and Ibeagha and I just wanted to reiterate your points on this. Both are on low salaries and are Americans, so the only value to sell them would be within the league. Additionally, with our foreign-heavy roster, they are a bit more valuable to us and come at a cheap price tag. Don't think they should be sold.
• Medina - not enough production from him yet to recuperate any of that transfer fee. He's at least a year away from the potential of being sold
• Matarrita - there just isn't value for him at the moment. I think the club's plans (and Mata's too) were to have sold him by now, but a rash of injuries and the inability for him to get back to his consistent form that he first showed here hasn't produced any demand
• TMac - the only value to sell him has to be here or to USL and I can't imagine we'll get a whole lot for him. I'd pull the trigger on it either way, because he doesn't provide anything to this team other than he's a native New Yorker. I know a lot of fans would hate it.
• Chanot - as you mentioned, I don't think we'd get a whole ton for him, especially considering how he's been splitting time with Ibeagha. He also means too much to this team. When I think of leaders of this team, Chanot is just behind Villa and Ring IMO
• Castellanos - not enough seen yet to sell
• Herrera - we don't own him and hasn't gotten enough minutes to be sold. I think he could be a candidate to earn some money on in the future if we were to acquire him completely
• Jonathan Lewis - this is probably the only one (other than TMac) that has a realistic shot of being sold, and it all depends on (assuming he's still the coach next year), Dome's truly honest opinions about this kid and how he fits in. I still don't think JLew could be sold outside of the states at the moment, but we probably could get some decent compensation for him in the league here. I don't want this to happen, but if Dome seriously doesn't have plans for this kid (at the very least as a spot starter and continuous bench contributor), then I would definitely consider it.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Just want to remind everyone that Man City sold Angelino this summer for £5 million.

Carry on.

 

[adam]

Agreed. I think ITS would really be the only candidate to possibly sell high from the current roster. Others that could be considered and why it won't happen listed below:

• You mentioned Sweat and Ibeagha and I just wanted to reiterate your points on this. Both are on low salaries and are Americans, so the only value to sell them would be within the league. Additionally, with our foreign-heavy roster, they are a bit more valuable to us and come at a cheap price tag. Don't think they should be sold.
• Medina - not enough production from him yet to recuperate any of that transfer fee. He's at least a year away from the potential of being sold
• Matarrita - there just isn't value for him at the moment. I think the club's plans (and Mata's too) were to have sold him by now, but a rash of injuries and the inability for him to get back to his consistent form that he first showed here hasn't produced any demand
• TMac - the only value to sell him has to be here or to USL and I can't imagine we'll get a whole lot for him. I'd pull the trigger on it either way, because he doesn't provide anything to this team other than he's a native New Yorker. I know a lot of fans would hate it.
• Chanot - as you mentioned, I don't think we'd get a whole ton for him, especially considering how he's been splitting time with Ibeagha. He also means too much to this team. When I think of leaders of this team, Chanot is just behind Villa and Ring IMO
• Castellanos - not enough seen yet to sell
• Herrera - we don't own him and hasn't gotten enough minutes to be sold. I think he could be a candidate to earn some money on in the future if we were to acquire him completely
• Jonathan Lewis - this is probably the only one (other than TMac) that has a realistic shot of being sold, and it all depends on (assuming he's still the coach next year), Dome's truly honest opinions about this kid and how he fits in. I still don't think JLew could be sold outside of the states at the moment, but we probably could get some decent compensation for him in the league here. I don't want this to happen, but if Dome seriously doesn't have plans for this kid (at the very least as a spot starter and continuous bench contributor), then I would definitely consider it.

Great post, I'd still sell Mata. Sweat, as much as I don't like him, is even with Mata these days at LB. If a European teams sees some potential, trade him and replace him with a LB who can start over Sweat and Sweat becomes the backup & USOC starter again.

In conclusion, I'd sell: Tmac, Mata, Jlew & Isi (because of Ulrich & mgarbowski 's points that we can't keep filling our roster with fringe NT players, especially ones that play in Libya & all over Africa. Get the value now before we have to deal with the African Cup of Nations next season!).

 

[Marito]

The decision to sell Isi or not is a really interesting and complex one, and it has ramifications for our player acquisition strategy in the future. Isi has performed quite well and is not expensive, also seems to be happy here as opposed to being a bench warmer at his previous club. Moreover, he's a fan favorite and a real revelation in an otherwise underwhelming season so far for the club. Also, he's probably the best player we have right now in 1-on-1 situations that is not 37 years old.

In other words he's a best case scenario, if you don't consider his two downsides: not being American, and being from a mediocre-to-minion country footballwise. The problem IMHO is that there are only maybe 15 to 20 countries who produce so many high-level soccer prospects that you can get a good, solid TAM contributor and be absolutely sure he won't ever be called for NT duty. And you have some regional tournament such as Copa America, Eurocup, African Nations, etc. almost every year, and then FIFA dates, etc.

Take Callens as an example. He's been a fantastic purchase, cheap from Spanish 2nd division, etc. There's absolutely no guarantee he won't be called to Peru for next year's Copa America. He's in the NT bubble. Same with Medina. Point being, in South America you would have to limit yourself to Brazilians, Argentinians, Colombians, and maybe Chileans. That's it. All the other countries do not produce enough talent not to consider a guy who does well in MLS on a TAM contract. In Central and North America Mexico is the lone powerhouse. In Europe maybe 10 powerhouses? That's it.

And the risk even carries over to DPs. Hell, Giovinco is a case in point. He's been probably the best DP buy in MLS but he's dangerously close to making it into the Italian NT. You could only protect yourself against your DP being called away at the worst possible time by buying Brazilians and Argentinians exclusively, and old enough DPs such as Villa, who still got recalled for NT duty once.

So I don't know to what an extent we can actually consider potential NT duty down the road as a buy/sell factor. Also, prospects from football superpowers tend to came at a premium, so an Argentinian 10 will cost more than a Venezuelan 10 with a similar resume.

 

[413Blue]

We’re all Midas Mulligan

I think FootyLovin took over Midas Mulligan's account based on recent post history. I thought I noticed this place being more peaceful lately.

 

[adam]

I think FootyLovin took over Midas Mulligan's account based on recent post history. I thought I noticed this place being more peaceful lately.

FootyLovin is Midas Mulligan . I'm Midas Mulligan . You're not saving the Forum, you're just getting it ready for Midas Mulligan .

 

[Ulrich]

The decision to sell Isi or not is a really interesting and complex one, and it has ramifications for our player acquisition strategy in the future. Isi has performed quite well and is not expensive, also seems to be happy here as opposed to being a bench warmer at his previous club. Moreover, he's a fan favorite and a real revelation in an otherwise underwhelming season so far for the club. Also, he's probably the best player we have right now in 1-on-1 situations that is not 37 years old.

In other words he's a best case scenario, if you don't consider his two downsides: not being American, and being from a mediocre-to-minion country footballwise. The problem IMHO is that there are only maybe 15 to 20 countries who produce so many high-level soccer prospects that you can get a good, solid TAM contributor and be absolutely sure he won't ever be called for NT duty. And you have some regional tournament such as Copa America, Eurocup, African Nations, etc. almost every year, and then FIFA dates, etc.

Take Callens as an example. He's been a fantastic purchase, cheap from Spanish 2nd division, etc. There's absolutely no guarantee he won't be called to Peru for next year's Copa America. He's in the NT bubble. Same with Medina. Point being, in South America you would have to limit yourself to Brazilians, Argentinians, Colombians, and maybe Chileans. That's it. All the other countries do not produce enough talent not to consider a guy who does well in MLS on a TAM contract. In Central and North America Mexico is the lone powerhouse. In Europe maybe 10 powerhouses? That's it.

And the risk even carries over to DPs. Hell, Giovinco is a case in point. He's been probably the best DP buy in MLS but he's dangerously close to making it into the Italian NT. You could only protect yourself against your DP being called away at the worst possible time by buying Brazilians and Argentinians exclusively, and old enough DPs such as Villa, who still got recalled for NT duty once.

So I don't know to what an extent we can actually consider potential NT duty down the road as a buy/sell factor. Also, prospects from football superpowers tend to came at a premium, so an Argentinian 10 will cost more than a Venezuelan 10 with a similar resume.

All great points.

I think the idea we’re peddling is to limit the team’s exposure to just a few rather than over half of the starters. Callens and Chanot, ok. Ring retired. Drop Ofori. Herrera is gonna get called. That’s three guys that make a major impact and are gone if called up, but they’re ok because it’s not easy to find true quality at CB and #8. It’s easier to find a forward, hence Isi is potentially expendable. It’s also easier to find a player with a two usable feet, so Ofori is expendable.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

No team in this league sells players frequently or effectively. The history of league sales have been random one-offs. We are not a selling league. We buy, then buy more because we have to keep up with everyone else. Salary cap and generally weak academy results league-wide (relative to the global marketplace) means we never have too much depth to sell from.

Who would you sell high on this winter if you were Reyna? Sweat? Ibeagha? They're valuable to us as Americans. Chanot? How much would we really get for him? Probably not enough to pay for his replacement. ITS might be a sell high candidate, but there would be a riot from the fanbase and we have no goalscoring depth.

I think Reyna is being unfairly judged here.

EDIT: Also, this is exactly what recent signings like Medina and Castellanos are supposed to be for. Starting a pipeline from SA of buy-low and sell-high young players. That was absolutely the plan with Harrison from the beginning too, not sure why Reyna isn't getting credit for it. Unless he only gets credit for selling players somewhere they *don't* want to go, lol.

The only two teams that have really been able to "sell" players have been NJ and Dallas and this is mainly because of their ability to replace guys on their roster like Sasha, Dax, Acosta, Zimmerman with more economical alternatives due to their academies. We are not really able to make moves like that for American talent like Sweat and Ibeagha because we don't have the ability to replace them with academy products. One day we will.

Also, keep in mind because of transfer rules the only players that really make sense to transfer out of the league are HGP, DPs. The Poku transfer was an anomaly. You can make big arguments that transferring Jack didn't really benefit the club all that much in the way a buy low/sell high transaction should work because of the allocation dollar cap on his transfer.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Good point, but I would say it this way.

Many of the players that have traditionally sold have been those who were raised through the academies. It's less about replacement and more about where they came from. Top 3 in value are Davies, Altidore and Miazga - all academy products.

If you look at the big Transfermarkt list - there are a lot of players who were acquired and resold and some acquired through the draft, but there are a lot of academy players too, and those are the best source.

Look at the kids raised in this country who are doing great overseas. You have academy players who were sold (Miazga, Yedlin, and soon Adams) and you have non-academy players who went on their own (Pulisic, McKennie, Wood, Novakovic, and Sargent). Weah is really in the later group as he spent only 1 year with the Red Bulls academy and had lots of overseas contacts. The only exceptions to the above are guys who were drafted into the league a long time ago before being sold (Cameron in 2008 and Ream in 2010).

The point is that today, there is a growing market for American players who can get sold overseas, but you'd better have them in your academy.

 

[Kjbert]

Just about everyone on this team is sellable except probably Johnson, Callens, Ring and Maxi for me.

Isi hasn’t done anything in 4 months. Chanot is always banged up. The LBs are mediocre. Berget is overpaid. Medina is soft. Even Timmerholm has leveled off.

So yea. Sell Isi and the rest of them too.

 

[adam]

Just about everyone on this team is sellable except probably Johnson, Callens, Ring and Maxi for me.

Isi hasn’t done anything in 4 months. Chanot is always banged up. The LBs are mediocre. Berget is overpaid. Medina is soft. Even Timmerholm has leveled off.

So yea. Sell Isi and the rest of them too.

Can we hold on the Yangel too? Otherwise, I’m down with your plan.

 

[Marito]

Can we hold on the Yangel too? Otherwise, I’m down with your plan.

That would be great! I don't think ManCity would sell Yangel to us, because then we would nominally control his destiny, and he's a guy whose ceiling seems much higher than MLS. But it would be great if they'd extend the loan at least one more year. The truth is he hasn't set the MLS on fire to such an extent as to deserve a transfer to EPL or Bundesliga or some place like that. So I don't know what kind of step-up CFG is planning for him.

 

[SoupInNYC]

That would be great! I don't think ManCity would sell Yangel to us, because then we would nominally control his destiny, and he's a guy whose ceiling seems much higher than MLS. But it would be great if they'd extend the loan at least one more year. The truth is he hasn't set the MLS on fire to such an extent as to deserve a transfer to EPL or Bundesliga or some place like that. So I don't know what kind of step-up CFG is planning for him.

I see what you’re saying, but I think ManCity would still end up controlling his destiny

 

[Kjbert]

Can we hold on the Yangel too? Otherwise, I’m down with your plan.

Sure. But he’s not ours.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Just about everyone on this team is sellable except probably Johnson, Callens, Ring and Maxi for me.

Isi hasn’t done anything in 4 months. Chanot is always banged up. The LBs are mediocre. Berget is overpaid. Medina is soft. Even Timmerholm has leveled off.

So yea. Sell Isi and the rest of them too.

I would throw away the last 10 games. Broken record but it's very difficult to evaluate players in a broken system. I like Tinny at this level. I think we are still yet to see the best of Isi. Medina is young as hell but could go for the right offer. Sands? Scally?

 

[Kjbert]

I would throw away the last 10 games. Broken record but it's very difficult to evaluate players in a broken system. I like Tinny at this level. I think we are still yet to see the best of Isi. Medina is young as hell but could go for the right offer. Sands? Scally?

I'll give you Tinnerholm, but he could be upgraded. I thought he would have an Ashley Cole like season. He hasn't.

I didn't include the kids in my thoughts.

Isi and Medina I would let go.

 

[Ulrich]

I'll give you Tinnerholm, but he could be upgraded. I thought he would have an Ashley Cole like season. He hasn't.

I didn't include the kids in my thoughts.

Isi and Medina I would let go.

Ashley Cole-like as in lots of Colored cards? Tinny did score 4goals, and he had a great start to the season, he’s just kinda slipped up in the last 10+ matches. Not sure if due to plateauing or fatigue or tactics....

 

[Christopher Jee]

Ashley Cole-like as in lots of Colored cards? Tinny did score 4goals, and he had a great start to the season, he’s just kinda slipped up in the last 10+ matches. Not sure if due to plateauing or fatigue or tactics....

Firmly tactics for me. Very isolated on the right hand side without wingers.

 

[Kjbert]

Ashley Cole was the best LB in MLS the last two seasons. I was expecting that type of impact and leadership from Tinnerholm.