Red Bulls - Postmatch

[Ulrich]

should he have dribble right into the redbull defender? maxi was in space to recieve that ball, he just got beat out because the RB player was running harder than he was

Except that Maxi was *not* in space to receive it. He had Adams up his ass. Villa is typically really good at seeing the field around him, but he flicked a ball into an area where he and his teammates numbered only 3 and the opponents numbered 5. That was not a routine flick to make by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

I'm sorry but I don't understand the "wide open" characterization of Maxi's position. Adams is literally nipping at his heels and already on a run, and Davis to his left is maybe 6 feet away, equidistant between him and Berget. If anything Villa has slightly more room to operate around him than Maxi does, although he is clearly surrounded and will lose the ball if he tries to do too much. The only person wide open is Medina to the right. The flick to Maxi had very very low chances of success because both Adams and Davis could converge. Hold up and try to find a seam towards the right flank was the right play.

u realize this is all happening in real time... theres basically no chance he can turn that around and get it to medina before a defender gets to him... Maxi was running slow and villa probably didnt see the defender on his ass nor did maxi. My point is he really didnt have a lot of options.

Chanot is much more to blame for this goal than villa is.

 

[Marito]

I'm sorry but I don't understand the "wide open" characterization of Maxi's position. Adams is literally nipping at his heels and already on a run, and Davis to his left is maybe 6 feet away, equidistant between him and Berget. If anything Villa has slightly more room to operate around him than Maxi does, although he is clearly surrounded and will lose the ball if he tries to do too much. The only person wide open is Medina to the right. The flick to Maxi had very very low chances of success because both Adams and Davis could converge. Hold up and try to find a seam towards the right flank was the right play.

In the end the whole wrongness of it is a product of them not being on the same page. As you pointed out, Villa sees the long ball from Chanot coming and starts running towards the left thinking of the flick. The pass wasn't going to land far enough from his initial position that he needed to run that hard, but he wanted to use that running start to take off towards the flank, so at that point and because Maxi didn't read the play the same way, all was lost. If Villa had decided to move slower, plant himself more firmly with his back to the CBs, and receive the ball in a position where he could control it and protect it for a second, the whole complexion of the play would have changed. I would finish by saying that Villa has an instinct to play fast and Maxi quite frequently doesn't, and this may be just an example of that.

 

[Mario]

If Villa had decided to move slower, plant himself more firmly with his back to the CBs, and receive the ball in a position where he could control it and protect it for a second, the whole complexion of the play would have changed. I would finish by saying that Villa has an instinct to play fast and Maxi quite frequently doesn't, and this may be just an example of that.

even if he does that, perfectly so, he has 4 guys around him and will still lose the ball... that is, unless he puts up a bubble shield and the red team cannot enter it like we're playing halo 3

 

[roxfontaine]

 

[Ulrich]

even if he does that, perfectly so, he has 4 guys around him and will still lose the ball... that is, unless he puts up a bubble shield and the red team cannot enter it like we're playing halo 3

The closest guy was an entire length of mowed grass away from him - it’s approx 10-15’. That’s plenty of time for a guy of Villa’s caliber to make two touches. Shit, he routinely dribbles through guys that are marking him tighter than on that play.

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

The closest guy was an entire length of mowed grass away from him - it’s approx 10-15’. That’s plenty of time for a guy of Villa’s caliber to make two touches. Shit, he routinely dribbles through guys that are marking him tighter than on that play.

that space closes down in less than a second in real life. Villa would still have to trap the ball and make moves on oncoming defenders. Its really not as easy as youre trying to make it sound

 

[Ulrich]

that space closes down in less than a second in real life. Villa would still have to trap the ball and make moves on oncoming defenders. Its really not as easy as youre trying to make it sound

Two touches takes less than a fraction of a second. He had more than enough time, especially for a seasoned pro that routinely can hold the ball in traffic - the game literally slows down for them regarding the speed of play versus decision making. Saying otherwise is disingenuous.

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

Two touches takes less than a fraction of a second. He had more than enough time, especially for a seasoned pro that routinely can hold the ball in traffic - the game literally slows down for them regarding the speed of play versus decision making. Saying otherwise is disingenuous.

Dont agree but i see that neither of us is going to end up agreeing with each other here. So i am happy to respectfully agree to disagree.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Dont agree but i see that neither of us is going to end up agreeing with each other here. So i am happy to respectfully agree to disagree.

Ok moving on.

So you can't see from this angle how far Robles was off his line - at which point the question becomes "why didn't Villa score a bicycle kick from halfway?"

 

[Regulator]

At some point you have to concede that Tyler Adams' anticipation and athletic motor were key contributors to the first goal, as much (or more) than Villa's flick.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Hes running hard in this direction:

off an unexpected long ball. he cant turn right into defenders, he cant go straight, he cant really turn around. Maxi is wide open but gets beaten by his man to his right. It wasnt a dumb play, it was just a play that didnt work out.

EDIT: The only safe play here is to play it out wide to the sidelines int he direction hes facing and likely give up possession but hope slow ass Berget can get to it first

At some point you have to concede that Tyler Adams' anticipation and athletic motor were key contributors to the first goal, as much (or more) than Villa's flick.

Yes.

Don't judge the play by one still photo. Go back and look at the video. You will see Adams start 4-5 yards farther back than Maxi and begin an all out sprint toward Villa while Maxi lopes forward. The photo above was taken when Adams was pulling even and probably just before Maxi even knew he was nearby. One second later, Adams has the ball, and Maxi is 4-5 yards back from Adams.

Again, it's one mistake on a play full of them, but it is representative of the whole day.

 

[Kangaroo Jack]

Yes.

Don't judge the play by one still photo. Go back and look at the video. You will see Adams start 4-5 yards farther back than Maxi and begin an all out sprint toward Villa while Maxi lopes forward. The photo above was taken when Adams was pulling even and probably just before Maxi even knew he was nearby. One second later, Adams has the ball, and Maxi is 4-5 yards back from Adams.

Again, it's one mistake on a play full of them, but it is representative of the whole day.

I 100 percent agree... i made the point earlier that neither maxi nor villa picked up on how fast he was closing in.

 

[The Toe]

Yes.

Don't judge the play by one still photo. Go back and look at the video. You will see Adams start 4-5 yards farther back than Maxi and begin an all out sprint toward Villa while Maxi lopes forward. The photo above was taken when Adams was pulling even and probably just before Maxi even knew he was nearby. One second later, Adams has the ball, and Maxi is 4-5 yards back from Adams.

Again, it's one mistake on a play full of them, but it is representative of the whole day.

Really, I think Maxi stepped back because he expected Villa to gain possession since he was in such a bad spot and wanted to give him an angle to backpass. He broke off his run and Villa tried the flick and Adams was following Maxi into that space, which was then solely Adams'.

 

[JayH]

#FlickGate

 

[mgarbowski]

 

[Ulrich]

#FlickGate

Might as well just say it... he’s a flicker.

 

[SoupInNYC]

#FlickGate

I actually wanna go back to this. Does anyone know how many flick-ons we had in this game and by who? Was Ring really referring to this specific flick that we are Zaprudering here?

My answer to the above is I really don't remember how many flicks we had and by who because I was hammered, so don't remember a ton of specifics, and I can't get myself to rewatch this thing, but listening to the NYCFC Nation podcast today, there were suggestions that we (as in, not only Villa) tried many flick-ons throughout the game.

I think we are reading way, way, way too much into Ring's comments in that he's taking a potshot at Villa

 

[Hobo]

it's taken me 5 days to logon here after that s/show. Two words - Dis Appointing. I have nothing else to say.

 

[DeGrozz]

The thing about Villa is that when something works for him, he definitely becomes more brash about trying it. After his wonder goal from 55 yards, he hit a few more -- even though it's a stupid strategy and none came close to connecting. I honestly think the same thing happened with the flick. He set up a goal with it against Atlanta and it's gone from being a 'throw it in here and there' type of play to something that he is overusing in the games since. This time it bit us on the ass.

He's obviously a wonderfully talented player, but to me it does seem like baby step by baby step he's becoming more and more brash/selfish. You can tell by the way that the team is playing when he is in there vs. when he was out injured.