Bundesliga 19/20

Who will win the Bundesliga

  • Bayern

  • Dortmund

  • Augsburg

  • Mainz

  • Koln

  • Paderborn

  • Union

  • Hertha

  • Bremen

  • Monchengladbach

  • Leverkusen

  • Schalke

  • Leipzig

  • Freiburg

  • Dusseldorf

  • Frankfurt

  • Wolfsburg

  • Hoffenheim


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Gotham Gator

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I also think the immediate benefit to having a limited number of people in the stands would be to add some crowd noise for TV broadcasts. I don’t think it would move the needle much in terms of gate revenue, and I would think that they might not even charge for admission.

Think of this scenario in Germany. What counts as staff for the home team is relaxed a bit so that the clubs can invite guests and get more people in the arena. They aren’t ticket paying customers, but they are mainly there to watch the game and provide some atmosphere for TV.

That strikes me as not all that unlikely by season’s end if things go well.
 

Gotham Gator

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How much did you enjoy the weekend’s games? I enjoyed them a lot even without the crowd noise.

I was very disappointed that Gio was scratched and hope it’s minor.

I don’t understand the advice to avoid touching on goal celebrations. If these guys are under special testing and isolation protocols that are sufficient for them to knock into each other all over the pitch, surely a hug or a high five is okay too. Perhaps it‘s more about setting a good example.
 

mgarbowski

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I don’t understand the advice to avoid touching on goal celebrations. If these guys are under special testing and isolation protocols that are sufficient for them to knock into each other all over the pitch, surely a hug or a high five is okay too. Perhaps it‘s more about setting a good example.
I thought about this, and the rules against shaking hands, and having the teams enter separately, contrasted against game play, which as previously noted was a bit less physical but still involves lots of contact, and there are no rules prohibiting it.

I think it is partly the "good example" reason you suggest, as well as a rational attempt to limit contact to that which is necessary. Rules do not have to be all or nothing.

And I think we need to be on guard against the attempts to mock such halfway measures as things start opening up (which to be clear, I don't think you were doing). This will come both from the faction who thinks we're taking unnecessary premature risks as well as those who think the entire effort was an overreaction: "What's the use of forbidding X when we allow Y? This will end in tragedy". || "That we forbid X while allowing Y is proof this entire shut down was a farcical charade."

Whenever we open and start allowing additional activities, it will make sense to employ such mixed, halfway measures, and that we do so is not in itself evidence that we are moving too soon or too late.
 
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ZYanksRule

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I don’t understand the advice to avoid touching on goal celebrations. If these guys are under special testing and isolation protocols that are sufficient for them to knock into each other all over the pitch, surely a hug or a high five is okay too. Perhaps it‘s more about setting a good example.
Eyewash. Basically it's like some of the TSA precautions, which are there for show but don't actually do anything to help safety.

And also I agree with you that it's setting a good example that other people can follow. But that said, definitely there is some eyewash in there. Precaution for the service of precaution. Not that it's wrong, just that it's more for show.
 

Fantazma

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im a little shocked at some of the twitter reaction on the empty stadiums. I mean there have been games behind closed doors before with no fans ( prior to virus ) for suspensions ( ultras fighting in prior games or other fights or racist chants) or other stuff outside of the game ( barcelona elections occuring and forced them to play behind closed doors due to fears of issues outside). its not a novel concept at all in this game.
 

Keith Putnam

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I think I'm against fake crowd noise. I'd rather sit with the discomfort of the situation rather than have some weird ersatz emotionality layered onto it.

With stadiums sounding as empty as they look at least we have a bit of a tribute to reality rather than an unsettling simulacrum.
 
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adam

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I think I'm against fake crowd noise. I'd rather sit with the discomfort of the situation rather than have some weird ersatz emotionality layered onto it.

With stadiums sounding as empty as they look at least we have a bit of a tribute to reality rather than an unsettling simulacrum.
If you really want to get uncomfortable, most the canned laughter you hear in on TV was recorded in the 50s. So it's dead people laughing. I don't know when they started recording crowd noise to pump into stadiums, but if the trend continues, the voices of the dead will be cheering on the modern sports in the not too distant future.
 
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ZYanksRule

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I think I'm against fake crowd noise. I'd rather sit with the discomfort of the situation rather than have some weird ersatz emotionality layered onto it.

With stadiums sounding as empty as they look at least we have a bit of a tribute to reality rather than an unsettling simulacrum.
The thing I think they should do, pipe in the regular crowd hum you hear during a game. Just make some sort of noise inside the stadium so that it's not this massive void of nothingness. The Bundesliga games were really hard to watch in quiet cavernous stadiums. If you just give me a little crowd hum, that might help just a bit.
 

Shwafta

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My opinions to your points below;
  • Augsburg impress me with their signings.
    • I thought BVB had a very strong first 2-3 days of signings in getting Brandt, Schultz, and Hazard. Haven't done too much since, aside adding some veteran experience in Hummels. Hummels I think has another 1-2 good years left in him, so big signing for them. Don't want another collapse ;) I already miss Hummels, but I'm happy he's going somewhere he can get bountiful minutes barring injury.
  • Hoffenheim look like they're gonna drown this season
    • Loss of their brilliant HC and most of their premier players over the past 2-3 years, I fully agree.
  • The three promoted sides look like they mean business.
    • Köln I presume will stay up. I want Union Berlin to stay up, as I love their story but I'm not sure how their team will handle the BuLi. Paderborn I think may get relegated.
  • Bayern...? okay then...?
    • Window isn't done, but right now we didn't do enough to strengthen our attack, namely wings (Sane transfer appears to be happening even with the injury in Community shield? Ziyech also rumored to be a signing). Hernandez and Pavard are great defensive depth signings, being as they can cover numerous spots. I think Hernandez is starting once his knee is fully ready, and Pavard is going to be a backup or sub for Kimmich. Possible signing of Roca would be good midfield depth/starter. A LOT of "ifs" though for Bayern.
You can't be serious in thinking Leverkusen is going to finish above Bayern. Kai Havertz is a machine but losing Brandt is going to hurt them, big addition to BVB though. I think this may be the year BVB finishes ahead of Bayern due to the exodus of Hummels, Robben, and Ribery. Players who were the face of Bayern for essentially the past decade (Hummels less so, only here a few years). Coman and Serge are really good albeit injury prone, and we lost a few younger kids to other clubs. Still some time in the window to bring in players, but right now I don't think Bayern could win the BuLi, it would be BVB's title to lose if no further signings are made (written 8/4 at 9AM).

Here's my predictions;
1. Dortmund
2. Bayern
3. Leipzig
4. Bremen
5. Leverkusen
6. Augsburg
7. Wolfsburg
8. Köln
9. Hertha Berlin
10. Monchengladbach
11. Schalke
12. Frankfurt (loss of Jovic & Haller hurts)
13. Düsseldorf
14. Hoffenheim
15. Freiburg
16. Union Berlin
17. Mainz
18. Paderborn

Bremen is essentially mimicking Frankfurt from 2 years ago, making a decent run in the cup and in the League, then tired the next season, as you noted as well. I hope Sargent can get and cement his place as a striker for them.
My opinions to your points below;
  • Augsburg impress me with their signings.
    • I thought BVB had a very strong first 2-3 days of signings in getting Brandt, Schultz, and Hazard. Haven't done too much since, aside adding some veteran experience in Hummels. Hummels I think has another 1-2 good years left in him, so big signing for them. Don't want another collapse ;) I already miss Hummels, but I'm happy he's going somewhere he can get bountiful minutes barring injury.
  • Hoffenheim look like they're gonna drown this season
    • Loss of their brilliant HC and most of their premier players over the past 2-3 years, I fully agree.
  • The three promoted sides look like they mean business.
    • Köln I presume will stay up. I want Union Berlin to stay up, as I love their story but I'm not sure how their team will handle the BuLi. Paderborn I think may get relegated.
  • Bayern...? okay then...?
    • Window isn't done, but right now we didn't do enough to strengthen our attack, namely wings (Sane transfer appears to be happening even with the injury in Community shield? Ziyech also rumored to be a signing). Hernandez and Pavard are great defensive depth signings, being as they can cover numerous spots. I think Hernandez is starting once his knee is fully ready, and Pavard is going to be a backup or sub for Kimmich. Possible signing of Roca would be good midfield depth/starter. A LOT of "ifs" though for Bayern.
You can't be serious in thinking Leverkusen is going to finish above Bayern. Kai Havertz is a machine but losing Brandt is going to hurt them, big addition to BVB though. I think this may be the year BVB finishes ahead of Bayern due to the exodus of Hummels, Robben, and Ribery. Players who were the face of Bayern for essentially the past decade (Hummels less so, only here a few years). Coman and Serge are really good albeit injury prone, and we lost a few younger kids to other clubs. Still some time in the window to bring in players, but right now I don't think Bayern could win the BuLi, it would be BVB's title to lose if no further signings are made (written 8/4 at 9AM).

Here's my predictions;
1. Dortmund
2. Bayern
3. Leipzig
4. Bremen
5. Leverkusen
6. Augsburg
7. Wolfsburg
8. Köln
9. Hertha Berlin
10. Monchengladbach
11. Schalke
12. Frankfurt (loss of Jovic & Haller hurts)
13. Düsseldorf
14. Hoffenheim
15. Freiburg
16. Union Berlin
17. Mainz
18. Paderborn

Bremen is essentially mimicking Frankfurt from 2 years ago, making a decent run in the cup and in the League, then tired the next season, as you noted as well. I hope Sargent can get and cement his place as a striker for them.

So I know we're like 8 MD's too early for this but...
1) We were so wrong about Augsburg.
2) We were soooOOOoooOOOooo wrong about Bremen, and honestly I'm kinda surprised. Then again, they rely on a 41 year old Pizarro so idk what I expected really. Rashica I thought would have been way better than he is.
3) We were pretty accurate with the Mainz/Paderborn/Frankfurt, Dusseldorf predictions.

Finally, I just want to point out that Schalke is hovering around 6-11th place... Pretty much what I predicted for them.


Looking towards the final matchdays, and seeing the performances after the return, here's my prediction for how it will end up:

1. Bayern
2. Dortmund (This will come down to Dortmund vs Bayern. If Dortmund can win it, I think they'll take the title. Otherwise, it's going to Bayern.
3. Leverkusen
4. Leipzig
5. Monchengladbach
6. Wolfsburg
7. Schalke
8. Koln
9. Hertha Berlin
10. Freiburg
11. Hoffenheim
12. Augsburg
13. Frankfurt
14. Union Berlin
15. Bremen
16. Mainz
17. Dussleldorf
18. Paderborn


Gonna be a really weird relegation battle this year.
Mainz run-in (bold = within 3 places):
Leipzig - Union Berlin - Hoffenheim - Frankfurt - Augsburg - Dortmund - Bremen - Leverkusen

Dusseldorf run-in:
Koln - Schalke - Bayern - Hoffenheim - Dortmund - Leipzig - Augsburg - Union Berlin

Bremen run-in (game in hand):
Frankfurt - Freiburg - Monchengladbach - Schalke - Wolfsburg - Paderborn - Bayern - Mainz - Koln

Mainz faces four teams in the relegation struggle zone. Dusseldorf are about to get rammed up the back, so Bremen has a really good chance to catch up if they pull their shit together.
 
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Gotham Gator

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So no pregame or halftime show on Fox.

Is this just the network being petulant because they lost the bidding for 2020-21 and don’t want to promote the league?

They have rights to the only major sports league on the planet that is currently running, and there is no hype or promotion at all. The Fox I know would have a 2 hour pregame and a Brady Bunch grid of Bundesliga fans making noise.
 
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ZYanksRule

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So no pregame or halftime show on Fox.

Is this just the network being petulant because they lost the bidding for 2020-21 and don’t want to promote the league?

They have rights to the only major sports league on the planet that is currently running, and there is no hype or promotion at all. The Fox I know would have a 2 hour pregame and a Brady Bunch grid of Bundesliga fans making noise.
I think Ian tweeted that it was about safety for their production crew since Los Angeles is still in the throes of this thing. It takes probably at least 20 people, and a control room is not able to socially distance. They probably decided the risk wasn't worth it.
 

mgarbowski

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Bundesliga is perennially boring because it is annually clear by February that Bayern will win. That doesn't change even when the league has a monopoly of games on offer. I was excited last week and bored already this week as soon as Munich scored first in its game. Even if Dortmund wins this week, I just don't see it happening. Will be happy to be wrong, but I think Bayern has to lose Wednesday, plus 2 more games at a minimum, because I doubt Dortmund will win out.
 

Shwafta

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Bundesliga is perennially boring because it is annually clear by February that Bayern will win. That doesn't change even when the league has a monopoly of games on offer. I was excited last week and bored already this week as soon as Munich scored first in its game. Even if Dortmund wins this week, I just don't see it happening. Will be happy to be wrong, but I think Bayern has to lose Wednesday, plus 2 more games at a minimum, because I doubt Dortmund will win out.
Do you watch the premier league? Ligue 1? MLS last season? Idk, for me sure there's a title race, but there's also the other parts of the league that are intriguing. Who will make europe? Relegation zone games? Bremen, Paderborn, and Dusseldorf are all fun teams to watch.
 

mgarbowski

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Do you watch the premier league? Ligue 1? MLS last season? Idk, for me sure there's a title race, but there's also the other parts of the league that are intriguing. Who will make europe? Relegation zone games? Bremen, Paderborn, and Dusseldorf are all fun teams to watch.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to piss in your cornflakes. I’m just annoyed because the first sport to come back has no drama.

To be honest, I have difficulty caring about any foreign league soccer. I’ve tried becoming a fan of various teams in different countries and it always ends up feeling forced. So all I want from these leagues is solid competition. For 7 looking like 8 years that’s been absent in Germany.

PL has the advantage of cultural and language affinity, and has the most competition at the top. But I’m not even that big of a PL fan.

And I can’t possibly care who gets relegated. I mean if I were German and it affected my team, sure, but these teams mean nothing to me. With the best teams leveraging international fan bases and UCL money, plus FFP rules, it gets harder and harder for teams outside the elite to compete, which makes the pro rel carousel a sad hamster wheel.
 

413Blue

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Do you watch the premier league? Ligue 1? MLS last season? Idk, for me sure there's a title race, but there's also the other parts of the league that are intriguing. Who will make europe? Relegation zone games? Bremen, Paderborn, and Dusseldorf are all fun teams to watch.
Over the last ten years, four clubs have been PL champions and only one back-to-back, and that doesn't include Liverpool, Tottenham or Arsenal who have all either come down to the wire, or at least had legitimate title hopes well past the new year at least a few times.
That diversity lends legitimacy to the competition to me when I'm watching a game in October. For the BL, I just don't have any sense of intrigue while watching. Pro/rel does not really interest me unless it's decision day or a big club is in trouble. Who gets Europe spots is something I can easily wait to read about next season when the Euro tournaments start.