2016 Supporter Shield Winner?

[Seth]

I think there's almost two different things to think about here and we're kind of ignoring one of them. The one we're talking about is cup vs. shield, but the other way to look at this is cup with almost all the teams in it vs cup with just the top two or four teams. I think that's why the shield matters to a lot of people, because entry into the cup tournament is almost too easy (or another way to look at it is you have to really suck to not make it in). It's like the hockey playoffs; almost everyone gets in so why even bother playing the season? Baseball's the same way now with the three wildcard teams in each league.

So perhaps the shield people (me included) feel that the shield is a "true" measure of who's good and who isn't, where the current cup is slightly devalued because almost everyone gets in.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Has any team ever accomplished either of those?

Maybe it's just me but I think the CCL is huge because no MLS team has ever won it. As long as that's the case, I'd take the CCL trophy over the shield. If we aren't the first, its a toss-up and I'd probably lean towards the shield.

PS - What do you think?

Dick comment of the day. You should know part of the answer to your first question based on your follow up comment bolded.

 

[LionNYC]

Has any team ever accomplished either of those?

Maybe it's just me but I think the CCL is huge because no MLS team has ever won it. As long as that's the case, I'd take the CCL trophy over the shield. If we aren't the first, its a toss-up and I'd probably lean towards the shield.

PS - What do you think?

While there are certain NYCFC fans that believe that MLS didn't exist prior to 2015...

DC won CCL is 1998 and LA Galaxy won it in 2000.

Wikipedia...

 

[Lasker]

Dick comment of the day. You should know part of the answer to your first question based on your follow up comment bolded.

How is that a "dick comment"?

I answered the question - I'd take the CCL over the shield as long as we're the first MLS team to do so, otherwise the shield would be better. And asked a question of my own. I'll admit the platonic ideal forum poster would have googled it but I don't really see the issue.

While there are certain NYCFC fans that believe that MLS didn't exist prior to 2015...

DC won CCL is 1998 and LA Galaxy won it in 2000.

Wikipedia...

I was aware of that. I'll be the first to admit I didn't follow the league before 2014, but my impression (which could be wrong - I'd be curious to hear what others think about this) is that it would still be seen as a meaningful first for an MLS team to win the CCL in its current format.

And even if you don't buy that, I'd say "First MLS team to win the CCL in 17 years" is pretty good anyway.

And just to cover my bases with Mr. Soup and answer my own question, no MLS team has ever won either the domestic or international treble, even if you count the pre-2008 CCC.

 

[SoupInNYC]

How is that a "dick comment"?

I answered the question - I'd take the CCL over the shield as long as we're the first MLS team to do so, otherwise the shield would be better. And asked a question of my own. I'll admit the platonic ideal forum poster would have googled it but I don't really see the issue.



I was aware of that. I'll be the first to admit I didn't follow the league before 2014, but my impression (which could be wrong - I'd be curious to hear what others think about this) is that it would still be seen as a meaningful first for an MLS team to win the CCL in its current format.

And even if you don't buy that, I'd say "First MLS team to win the CCL in 17 years" is pretty good anyway.

And just to cover my bases with Mr. Soup and answer my own question, no MLS team has ever won either the domestic or international treble, even if you count the pre-2008 CCC.

Sorry man, wasn't calling you out.

I was saying that my post was "dick comment of the day"

 

[Goodfella]

Wait, people think that wasn't a handball?

Yup.
Lampard could shit diamonds and you'd say it was cubic zirconia. It's cool, tho. You're entitled to your opinion of him and his goal, but it's an opinion in both cases, not fact, as you stated.

 

[dannd23]

While there are certain NYCFC fans that believe that MLS didn't exist prior to 2015...

DC won CCL is 1998 and LA Galaxy won it in 2000.

Wikipedia...

While I agree, it was a completely different format in those days and you only had to worry about two teams from Liga MX. In the current format with 4 teams from Liga MX, the closest we've really seen is Kreis-led RSL (LOL) who lost in the final leg or Montreal who just didn't have the juice to compete with America. I mean, shit, this year's CCL had 4 Liga MX teams in the semifinals.

It'd be monumental for MLS as a league to win a CCL in the current format, especially since Liga MX has won every single one dating back to 2006.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I think there's almost two different things to think about here and we're kind of ignoring one of them. The one we're talking about is cup vs. shield, but the other way to look at this is cup with almost all the teams in it vs cup with just the top two or four teams. I think that's why the shield matters to a lot of people, because entry into the cup tournament is almost too easy (or another way to look at it is you have to really suck to not make it in). It's like the hockey playoffs; almost everyone gets in so why even bother playing the season? Baseball's the same way now with the three wildcard teams in each league.

So perhaps the shield people (me included) feel that the shield is a "true" measure of who's good and who isn't, where the current cup is slightly devalued because almost everyone gets in.

Well, the issue with people thinking that way is that it isn't how the teams think.

The historically best team in the league (LAG) is well known for sandbagging the regular season to get fit, try shit out, and start a slow crescendo into the playoffs.

Since SS isn't the league championship, teams won't and don't play like it is. I don't think you can assume that the standings would be the same if SS were the championship. They could be. And they probably would look similar, but if the SS were what mattered, I don't think there's any way Colorado sniffs it (likely won't anyway). From here out, every team they play would be gunning for 3 and they'd be under constant pressure.

 

[Seth]

if the SS were what mattered, I don't think there's any way Colorado sniffs it (likely won't anyway). From here out, every team they play would be gunning for 3 and they'd be under constant pressure.

And that perfectly sums up the discussion. The Premier League works that way, you're always going for three, and there's no other consideration. The other side of the argument is that if you're mathematically not able to get the SS there's absolutely no incentive to play the match (not counting the relegation zone teams), whereas with a playoff system almost all the teams have incentive through almost the whole season until that last spot gets clinched. Good points and bad points for both.

I favor the supporters shield way though, because it's about more than just that one season in a sense. In the EPL you have the top few teams, and then the next 8 or so, say. Those 8 teams could be considered aspirational in a way. "That was an OK season finishing 11th, but let's see if we can't get to top 10 next season, then top 6 after that." Having European play I think makes a huge difference. Top 4 for Champions League, then Europa. So even if you don't finish first there's still incentives, and reason to improve your play and your players.

In the European system the points *do* matter, whereas here all you have to do is just not be at the very bottom. Neither one's necessarily better than the other, but it's two very different mindsets.

 

[FootyLovin]

And that perfectly sums up the discussion. The Premier League works that way, you're always going for three, and there's no other consideration. The other side of the argument is that if you're mathematically not able to get the SS there's absolutely no incentive to play the match (not counting the relegation zone teams), whereas with a playoff system almost all the teams have incentive through almost the whole season until that last spot gets clinched. Good points and bad points for both.

I favor the supporters shield way though, because it's about more than just that one season in a sense. In the EPL you have the top few teams, and then the next 8 or so, say. Those 8 teams could be considered aspirational in a way. "That was an OK season finishing 11th, but let's see if we can't get to top 10 next season, then top 6 after that." Having European play I think makes a huge difference. Top 4 for Champions League, then Europa. So even if you don't finish first there's still incentives, and reason to improve your play and your players.

In the European system the points *do* matter, whereas here all you have to do is just not be at the very bottom. Neither one's necessarily better than the other, but it's two very different mindsets.

Not sure if I'm misinterpreting your post. IF you are saying that the places matter more in Europe, I'm not sure I agree.

In MLS here's what matters by Conference standing placement:

• 1 - CCL. Home through Conference Championship. SS if also beat other conference and home for finals.
• 2 - No play in. Home in Conference Semi.
• 3-4 - Home in Conference play in.
• 5-6 - Made the playoffs.
• 7-10 - Scrapping to make the playoffs until reality hits, usually anywhere from 9/1-10-31.

To my eye, it's a good system for making every game matter. Maybe it's a little weak for the bottom teams in terms of incentive toward season end.

Does MLS do any revenue share/bonus based on standings? We don't do we?

 

[Fantazma]

1. CCL cup
2. MLS cup
3. U.S. Open cup
4. SS

Playoffs matter, irrelevant of who was the better team during the season it's the way it's done here ( almost all sports) If not then get Garber to change rules and eliminate playoffs and make SS winner the champion. I sure as hell don't want to be the "best" team as SS winner and not win the cup....what good is that. Might as well be a participation medal.

You could still award the CCL spot to best record anyway

 

[Falastur]

Well, this thread pretty much jinxed us didn't it? :/

 

[LionNYC]

Well, this thread pretty much jinxed us didn't it? :/

We must sacrifice two pigeons now

 

[Kevin]

This thread can be deleted now lol.