2018 Roster Discussion

[sbrylski]

He's extremely left-footed in his highlight reel. Seems like a right-sided player in Vieira's system.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Jack play some CAM this year or second forward in a 3-5-2.

 

[JayH]

So basically...if Medina comes to NYCFC as a DP, bring out the pitchforks!

If he can sign with Citeh and come here on a loan and not be a DP/TAM level player...praise Jesus!

Right?

If we reap the benefits of affiliation and get him on a non-DP deal, that’s close to a no lose sitch.

If we get him as a young DP, I reserve judgment to see whether he is in the Almirón-ish ball park, because I have no real basis right now to gauge his prowess. He would need to turn out to be for me to be satisfied. I would just be flying blind by judging now without much exposure to promising kids in that part of the world. It’s s bit scary (exciting?) as a fan. No pitchforks now. Maybe later. Hopefully not.

 

[Bane]

If we reap the benefits of affiliation and get him on a non-DP deal, that’s close to a no lose sitch.

If we get him as a young DP, I reserve judgment to see whether he is in the Almirón-ish ball park, because I have no real basis right now to gauge his prowess. He would need to turn out to be for me to be satisfied. I would just be flying blind by judging now without much exposure to promising kids in that part of the world. It’s s bit scary (exciting?) as a fan. No pitchforks now. Maybe later. Hopefully not.

If he is a DP on loan, then the club can f off. Either he stays long-term as a DP or is a non-DP loan.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Choice A. Because we can still sign additional DPs on top of the transfer. AND it’s a loophole that will keep on giving.

The second choice only gets us that one player and some possible GAM later (after sale) to get the extra players the first option already got us.

This is the right answer. The 650k of GAM is not a certainty, whereas the cap savings/extra DP slot is a certainty. We also have to realize that CFG is also subsidizing the risk of Yangel & Jesus not panning out and will spend to replace if they don't. That's awesome.

If we sign the right DPs and TAM players to go along with these CFG loanees, that's something other MLS organizations cant compete with. Everyone else, like what LAFC just did with Rossi, would have to sign these players as DPs. With that being said CFG has only had a home run success on 1 out 4 DP signings so far. That has to change.

 

[Bane]

Overall, I think the CFG relationship is a good thing and I'll defend the club more often than not. It's confusion like this which is the drawback and annoying as fuck.

 

[Bane]

This is the right answer. The 650k of GAM is not a certainty, whereas the cap savings/extra DP slot is a certainty. We also have to realize that CFG is also subsidizing the risk of Yangel & Jesus not panning out and will spend to replace if they don't. That's awesome.

If we sign the right DPs and TAM players to go along with these CFG loanees, that's something other MLS organizations cant compete with. Everyone else, like what LAFC just did with Rossi, would have to sign these players as DPs. With that being said CFG has only had a home run success on 1 out 4 DP signings so far. That has to change.

To be fair, I think Pirlo/Lampard was done to get asses in the seats. Villa was a grand slam, and Maxi isn't a great DP, but it certainly a good player.

 

[LionNYC]

Another important philosophical roster question...

Vieira was pissed he couldn't sign multiple players during the summer transfer window. That being said, should we hold enough TAM and roster space until the summer transfer window to bolster our rosters with needs that arise then? Or just build completely now with depth?

 

[SoupInNYC]

Will Parchman talked on Twitter today about how the MLS Salary Cap doesn't matter because only two teams have shown the willingness to blow up the budget - Toronto and Atlanta.

That's an indictment of our Club. And I think he's right.

Ummm, we had the second highest payroll in the league last year, spending $17.3m on base salary. TFC spent $20.1m. There are many things that this club can be criticized on, but the willingness to spend money isn't one of them (how that money is spent is a different convo and is a fair argument).

 

[Bane]

Ummm, we had the second highest payroll in the league last year, spending $17.3m on base salary. TFC spent $20.1m. There are many things that this club can be criticized on, but the willingness to spend money isn't one of them (how that money is spent is a different convo and is a fair argument).

THIS.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Another important philosophical roster question...

Vieira was pissed he couldn't sign multiple players during the summer transfer window. That being said, should we hold enough TAM and roster space until the summer transfer window to bolster our rosters with needs that arise then? Or just build completely now with depth?

It depends on what's available now. We shouldn't spend money now just to spend it, but if we can fill out our salary cap with impactful players, might as well get full years out of them. The goal is to have the best possible team, and I think we approach the summer transfer window when we get there - make every effort to have everyone with us when training camp opens (which is in like 45 days ... man, MLS offseason is so ridiculously short.

 

[Jon]

Ummm, we had the second highest payroll in the league last year, spending $17.3m on base salary. TFC spent $20.1m. There are many things that this club can be criticized on, but the willingness to spend money isn't one of them (how that money is spent is a different convo and is a fair argument).

One could argue that we don't really spend money on transfer, thus limiting the players we could bring in.

 

[LionNYC]

Ummm, we had the second highest payroll in the league last year, spending $17.3m on base salary. TFC spent $20.1m. There are many things that this club can be criticized on, but the willingness to spend money isn't one of them (how that money is spent is a different convo and is a fair argument).

Base salary is not the same as transfer fees. Atlanta is killing us in terms of a comparison to transfer fees.

One could argue that we don't really spend money on transfer, thus limiting the players we could bring in.

This.

 

[Kjbert]

Ummm, we had the second highest payroll in the league last year, spending $17.3m on base salary. TFC spent $20.1m. There are many things that this club can be criticized on, but the willingness to spend money isn't one of them (how that money is spent is a different convo and is a fair argument).

1/3 of our wage bill was Andrea Pirlo

Remind me again how much money Atlanta spent last season.

 

[Kjbert]

Right now, our wage bill is about $11 Million. Let's see what happens with our DP decision.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Base salary is not the same as transfer fees. Atlanta is killing us in terms of a comparison to transfer fees.

Why do transfer fees matter? A player that is signed on a free transfer for the same salary and performance is a more economical signing.

We aren't a club that needs to sell young players for a profit to be able to afford signings. League structures prevent clubs from truly benefiting from transfers. Facts are that when Almiron transfer for like 15-20 million, ATL will get the same amount of allocation dollars as Orlando got for Kevin Molino and less allocation dollars than what SKC got for Dom Dwyer.

 

[Kjbert]

Why do transfer fees matter? A player that is signed on a free transfer for the same salary and performance is a more economical signing.

We aren't a club that needs to sell young players for a profit to be able to afford signings. League structures prevent clubs from truly benefiting from transfers. Facts are that when Almiron transfer for like 15-20 million, ATL will get the same amount of allocation dollars as Orlando got for Kevin Molino and less allocation dollars than what SKC got for Dom Dwyer.

It matters when you pay Maxi Moralez the same amount as Miguel Almiron, yet the latter cost Atlanta 5x as much (and played like it).

There are reasons guys are available on a free transfer most of the time. It means their current team didn't want them anymore (Ozil, Sanchez are the exception).

Villa, Pirlo, Lampard and Moralez were available on a free because no one wanted to pay them their current wages anymore (Pirlo and Moralez) or because they had no value to their prior teams (Villa and Lampard).

 

[Gazza_55]

Why do transfer fees matter? A player that is signed on a free transfer for the same salary and performance is a more economical signing.

We aren't a club that needs to sell young players for a profit to be able to afford signings. League structures prevent clubs from truly benefiting from transfers. Facts are that when Almiron transfer for like 15-20 million, ATL will get the same amount of allocation dollars as Orlando got for Kevin Molino and less allocation dollars than what SKC got for Dom Dwyer.

That is changing in 2018. Clubs will get 100% of transfer fees so Atlana will get all $20m.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

That is changing in 2018. Clubs will get 100% of transfer fees so Atlana will get all $20m.

It's not. Teams will get 100% of transfer fees for homegrown players, but there has been no annouced change to allocation limits in transfers.

 

[SoupInNYC]

1/3 of our wage bill was Andrea Pirlo

Remind me again how much money Atlanta spent last season.

Yes, I get it.

But the narrative that we don’t spend money doesn’t exist. Because we have spent a lot of money.

And yes, we could have spent it better.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

It matters when you pay Maxi Moralez the same amount as Miguel Almiron, yet the latter cost Atlanta 5x as much (and played like it).

There are reasons guys are available on a free transfer most of the time. It means their current team didn't want them anymore (Ozil, Sanchez are the exception).

Villa, Pirlo, Lampard and Moralez were available on a free because no one wanted to pay them their current wages anymore (Pirlo and Moralez) or because they had no value to their prior teams (Villa and Lampard).

I know you like inserting Moralez into the equation, but at least get your facts right since he didn't come on a free, nor is relevant to the discussion. The Lampards/Pirlos are not relevant to the discussion because they were signed for reasons other than sporting value. We signed Callens last year for a free and Tinnerhold this year. Even Victor Vasquez went on a free. These players were not discards.

The point is that Almiron's value is inflated by potential. You can purchase an player that is just as good currently as Almiron with a lesser ceiling for less money. What is the benefit of spending millions more if your only benefit is that you may one a some amount of that back in allocation dollars?