2018 Roster Discussion

[ZYanksRule]

It's funny being a fan of this organization. The deadline for releasing these moves is 1pm, and I don't even have to check Twitter yet, I know nothing is getting released until they absolutely have to. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't release these moves until like 2 or 3pm. That's just how they roll.

 

[sbrylski]

So if Herrera really is returning per Glenn Crooks, then you're either looking for a LW, RWB or CF right? To get another goalscorer on the field in that scenario, it has to come from the LW position.

Moving to a 3-5-2 would actually make more sense because you can probably get a more natural scorer at CF than you could at LW. At least that would make more sense to me.

I say target the best player possible, then fit the formation to them - only because our roster seems suited to play both formations.

I still have a gut feeling that Fernando Torres is going to be the next DP despite a sincere desire to go younger, which would shift us into a 3-5-2. I think it has the added benefit of being a formation that less mobile midfielders such as McNamara and Yaya Toure could have success in with more bodies around them.

 

[mgarbowski]

So if Herrera really is returning per Glenn Crooks

Where did Crooks say this?

 

[Kjbert]

Where did Crooks say this?

Go back a couple of pages. He apparently said it during a SITC podcast

 

[SoupInNYC]

I think he would be our tallest CB. Callens and Chanot are both 6'1" (not including Callens' hair).

To be seen if we move to a Back 3 formation. Tough for me to see Brillant coming back as a 3rd CB with Ferraresi coming in and Sweat's utility ability.

If we move to a Back 3 formation, then I think Brillant absolutely needs to stay, unless we go out and spend another 150k+ on another CB. Especially after this season where we saw how important depth is, we can't go into a season playing 3 CBs, as Sweat and White the only available CB backup options.

With 3 starting CBs and injuries, callups, card accumulation, and potential poor form, a 4th CB is bound to get some substantial playing time, and I don't want that to be Sweat or White. (and yes, I know Sweat played well against Columbus as a CB, but they really weren't pressing all that much and it is such a small sample size)

 

[LionNYC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/935147112051994624

And I 100% called this a while back.

 

[mgarbowski]

Go back a couple of pages. He apparently said it during a SITC podcast

I see it now. derek_villa said it in a post where I thought he was talking abut Camargo but it was YH.

 

[Kjbert]

If we move to a Back 3 formation, then I think Brillant absolutely needs to stay, unless we go out and spend another 150k+ on another CB. Especially after this season where we saw how important depth is, we can't go into a season playing 3 CBs, as Sweat and White the only available CB backup options.

With 3 starting CBs and injuries, callups, card accumulation, and potential poor form, a 4th CB is bound to get some substantial playing time, and I don't want that to be Sweat or White. (and yes, I know Sweat played well against Columbus as a CB, but they really weren't pressing all that much and it is such a small sample size)

To play Devil's advocate - why couldn't you just go to 4 in the back if there were injury concerns?

 

[gbservis]

So if Herrera really is returning per Glenn Crooks, then you're either looking for a LW, RWB or CF right? To get another goalscorer on the field in that scenario, it has to come from the LW position.

Moving to a 3-5-2 would actually make more sense because you can probably get a more natural scorer at CF than you could at LW. At least that would make more sense to me.

Agree CF makes more sense and gives the team more options. I can't think of a DP level LW that would defend at the rate PV has had Wallace and Harrison drop on D.

 

[SoupInNYC]

To play Devil's advocate - why couldn't you just go to 4 in the back if there were injury concerns?

Well sure, but that would require changing our tactics quite a bit, and depending on other personnel moves in the offseason, might not be best.

Let's say we go out and get a target CF and want to move to a 3-5-2. For argument's sake, we'll just go ahead and say Torres and assume he's putting up reasonable DP contributions as a target CF and Villa playing off of him in the 3-5-2.

Now we lose one of our CBs for 3-4 weeks because of an injury. Do we then go to a 4-3-3 with Villa on the LW just because we decided we didn't need more CB depth? Or are we comfortable with Sweat or White filling in for those couple of weeks? What if this is during a time when Matarrita is out for international duty, then who is our LWB?

My main point is, if we move to 3 ATB, we need a very serviceable 4th CB. Someone like a Brillant (ideally on less salary). We should also have an OK 5th, and I'm fine with Sweat being that 5th guy.

 

[Kjbert]

Well sure, but that would require changing our tactics quite a bit, and depending on other personnel moves in the offseason, might not be best.

Let's say we go out and get a target CF and want to move to a 3-5-2. For argument's sake, we'll just go ahead and say Torres and assume he's putting up reasonable DP contributions as a target CF and Villa playing off of him in the 3-5-2.

Now we lose one of our CBs for 3-4 weeks because of an injury. Do we then go to a 4-3-3 with Villa on the LW just because we decided we didn't need more CB depth? Or are we comfortable with Sweat or White filling in for those couple of weeks? What if this is during a time when Matarrita is out for international duty, then who is our LWB?

My main point is, if we move to 3 ATB, we need a very serviceable 4th CB. Someone like a Brillant (ideally on less salary). We should also have an OK 5th, and I'm fine with Sweat being that 5th guy.

Or you go to a flat 4-4-2 or a Diamond 4-4-2 depending on whether you want to play Maxi or Herrera

 

[SoupInNYC]

Or you go to a flat 4-4-2 or a Diamond 4-4-2 depending on whether you want to play Maxi or Herrera

That's fair. I would guess if we went to a flat 4-4-2, the LM would be Wallace or Lewis, but then that means one of Ring, Herrera, or Maxi sits (I don't think any of them would play LM).

If diamond, then you can get all three of them there with Jack as the RM perhaps.

I really think though, if we are going to go into a season with the mindset of lets play a 3-5-2, our backup plan if we lose a CB shouldn't be lets change formations. That can be A backup plan, but we should be prepared to deal with losing a CB, or two (i.e., second leg of playoffs), without having to completely change formations.

 

[gbservis]

Or you go to a flat 4-4-2 or a Diamond 4-4-2 depending on whether you want to play Maxi or Herrera

Two up top regardless of how you accomplish it seems like a necessity unless PV actually allows our wings in the 4-3-3 to play as attacking wings. For the second half of the season aside from the last playoff game we played an ultra defensive formation with Wallace and Harrison playing roles more closely resembling LM and RM spots. The result was us playing in a super conservative 4-5-1 and scoring goals at a terrible rate. I don't trust that PV won't do it again since he seems predisposed to going overly defensive for some reason so I'd rather just have a second guy always assigned up top with Villa.

 

[Kjbert]

That's fair. I would guess if we went to a flat 4-4-2, the LM would be Wallace or Lewis, but then that means one of Ring, Herrera, or Maxi sits (I don't think any of them would play LM).

If diamond, then you can get all three of them there with Jack as the RM perhaps.

I really think though, if we are going to go into a season with the mindset of lets play a 3-5-2, our backup plan if we lose a CB shouldn't be lets change formations. That can be A backup plan, but we should be prepared to deal with losing a CB, or two (i.e., second leg of playoffs), without having to completely change formations.

I happen to agree with you. I just rate Sweat higher as a LCB than others I guess.

 

[Kjbert]

Two up top regardless of how you accomplish it seems like a necessity unless PV actually allows our wings in the 4-3-3 to play as attacking wings. For the second half of the season aside from the last playoff game we played an ultra defensive formation with Wallace and Harrison playing roles more closely resembling LM and RM spots. The result was us playing in a super conservative 4-5-1 and scoring a goals at a terrible rate. I don't trust that PV will doing it again since he seemed predisposed to going overly defensive for some reason so I'd rather just have a second guy always assigned up top with Villa.

Maybe he thought (incorrectly) that he could get goals out of his #10

 

[gbservis]

Maybe he thought (incorrectly) that he could get goals out of his #10

I don't disagree but if that was the plan our #10 needed to play like a #10 and not go box to box like a #8. Not sure if dropping super deep was PV instructed or Maxi just doing what he wanted, either way it was a disaster. It's a good point though. If PV wants to stick with a 4-3-3 with heavy 2 ways assignments on the wing then push Maxi to LW since he seems to like to go box to box anyway, sign a true #10 and let them play as such.

 

[Kjbert]

I don't disagree but if that was the plan our #10 needed to play like a #10 and not go box to box like a #8. Not sure if dropping super deep was PV instructed or Maxi just doing what he wanted, either way it was a disaster. It's a good point though. If PV wants to stick with a 4-3-3 with heavy 2 ways assignments on the wing then push Maxi to LW since he seems to like to go box to box anyway, sign a true #10 and let them play as such.

I agree with everything except trying Maxi at LW again. He was awful there.

 

[LionNYC]

We are 9 minutes away from offseason news beginning. Or at least when NYCFC must notify the MLS offices regarding the news and we'll hear it later when Mark Booth writes it up. Or from NYCFC.com staff

 

[SoupInNYC]

I happen to agree with you. I just rate Sweat higher as a LCB than others I guess.

Thats fine (though I do disagree with you in regards to rating Sweat as LCB), but lets say Sweat is rated high(er) as a LCB, there are still two issues I have with it:

1. This then pushes Callens to CCB (Center CB?) and Chanot to RCB. I'd rather have Chanot in the middle and Callens and his pace on the outside
2. And this one is a bit more dependent on offseason acquisitions, this diminishes our LB or LWB depth quite a bit. As of now, Matarrita would be the only one. I know the jury is still out whether or not Wallace is back, and he probably could play LWB in a pinch, but its not ideal.

 

[Kjbert]

All good points. But Kwame Awuah is your 3rd Choice LB behind Matarrita and Sweat