Maybe It's Me, But ...

[Nick Chavez]

I suppose it is all about knowing what went on before, and what, I suspect, City hope you do not discover.

Once you belong to a club it stays with you, you stick with it, no matter what; through good times and bad. Everything the club does you follow without question - you support.

However, if you do this, then an Arsenal fan cannot be an NYCFC fan - PL (and others, Barca included) clubs attempted to take over or create a new MLS club, but the timing was wrong, City came in at just the right time.

I am sorry (and you will hate this), but the foreseeable future NYCFC is nothing but City's whore - it sounds terrible, but that is what it is. NYCFC will grow and become its own entity, but for the next few years it will be the former.

I will follow the club and I will support her, but she is a created feeder club, and nothing more at present - Demichelis will sign for you (bookmark this, you'll see).

I hope NYCFC becomes more, but for now it is nothing but exploitation.

Wow, Mr. Blue Wolf is about as near-sighted as many of our local naysayers. Incredible coming from an "official MCFC blogger." Someone tell this guy that New York City is literally 16 times the market of Manchester, and we're not competing with the most popular club in the world in our market, we're competing against RBNY. He acts like Man City is the be-all-end-all when they haven't won a trophy since the 1970's until the Sheik bought the club in 2008 and you finally won something again in 2011.

Man City's "whore"? Why pay 100 Million for a "whore"? Why bother trying to build a $400 million stadium in NYC, all that trouble and heavy cost for a "feeder club"? Why hire the best business/athletic professionals locally and in the US Soccer realm? Why not just buy a club with a stadium in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Columbia, where all the talent already is? Why even bother with New York City and the massive headache that it is here to get that done?

Because the Sheik/Soriano know which way the wind blows. New York City FC's upside can easily dwarf Manchester City's in the coming decades. Hmmm... let's see.. what's more appealing? A market of 8 million people (NYC) in the media capital of the world/world's most iconic city or a market of 500,00o (Manchester). For you too assume that NYCFC won't one day be the Sheik's priority shows quite the lack of realistic vision, as does asssuming that the EPL will always be bigger than MLS.

Why would supporters of other EPL clubs be fans of New York City, foregoing their "loyalty" to their EPL club to support NYCFC? That's easy. Because their loyalty to New York City trumps any loyalty to ANY club in the world, especially one that's across the ocean in a place that many of them have never been to.

The club's name is New York City Football Club, and you'd do well to remember that. And now that the club is established, and the stadium will be built, City Football Group can leave if they want to (they won't), and we'll still have it forever and we'll keep it going as long as New York City exists. I hope I answered your question.

Oh... and by the way, New York City Football Club aren't owned by Manchester City. They're owned by "City Football Group" (which is owned by the Sheik/Abu Dhabi United Group) and the New York Yankees. Manchester City itself owns no foreign club. You'd also do well to remember that, because if the Sheik goes, so too does so much that your club now takes for granted, which is your lottery ticket that now allows you to realistically compete for actual titles. If that ever goes, then you'll find out how much Manchester City FC actually own. Good talk.

 

[Vinjay]

While I usually agree with majority of what Nick Chavez says there's no way Manchester City will ever be dwarfed by any club. Certainly not with the current long term ownership and long term infastructure. Would you suggest Real Madrid could be dwarfed? Since its less than half the population of NY according to my extensive google research. Also when it comes to highest paying clubs in world sport look at the top two. Manchester City and New York Yankees so the baseball franchise certainly isn't dwarfing MCFC in stature by above argument.

Aside from that disagreement my vision for NYCFC is just as big and to become as big as any global force if not dwarfing the very biggest. As long as the league sees growth and that's a good bet otherwise this investment wouldn't have been taken. Bombay has a population of almost 12 million it does not mean there's going to be colossal investment in the Indian league.

Why do so many people seem to question Sheik Mansour? When he completed his takeover there were instantly people questioning how long he would last. People said the same about Abramovich and that hasn't happened either. Certainly Sheik Mansour offers the greater long term guarantee coming from sovereign wealth which was openly regarded as the greatest guarantee in financing following the takeover. To any Chelsea fans on forum I highly doubt Abramovich will be going anywhere anytime soon but its a fact where the longer term guarantee is. There can't be a better guarantee long term than what MCFC have...same for NYCFC.

So far since his involvement we have had the usual Chivas nonsense (which is a laughable comparison) and of course the stuff above. Manchester City's whore is ludicrously over the top. Without meaning to be its insulting to Sheik Mansour's intelligence to suggest he does not understand the potential of this market. We might have Soriano to thank for bringing the idea forward but it wouldn't have taken much persuasion. This isn't a guy who was born into wealth. This is a certified genius and a member of royalty that actively contributes to the day to day running of his country combined with a schedule so extensively vast he's barely been able to attend a game. Not like that gimmick family in the UK he's the real deal. The man is an absolute genius not just somebody with great business instincts (great businessmen are not always stunning academics) or throwing money around like some owners are.

 

[Nick Chavez]

Wrong, Vinjay. Manchester United and Real Madrid already dwarf Manchester City in many ways besides access to money. And Real Madrid's not too far from their spending power either. But, City are welcome to try to pry Bale or Ronaldo from Real Madrid. Or compare trophy cabinets, or number of fans world-wide with Real Madrid or Manchester United. You get my point. And none of what I said is meant to be disrespectful to Manchester City, I'm just stating the facts as they are. Manchester City aren't the biggest club in the world. Hell, they're not even the biggest club in the Manchester area.

And yes, there are a few bigger cities than New York City, but none of them are the media capital of the world, the most iconic city in the world, in a country/league with the best infrastucture and a monopoly on the biggest, most wealthy cities/markets of the world, including Canada's. When MLS loosens financial restrictions enough, and they will, the only league that will be able to compete with them is a UEFA superleague, like the big Champion's League giants, in a table format, which may never materialize. Otherwise, MLS will gobble much of the best talent because they'll simply have the most money, and eventually, the best league.

Remember, it's not all about prestige/tradition. Clubs like Chelsea, Manchester City, PSG and Monaco can tell you that, as very few people gave a rats's ass about them outside of their markets until they got very wealthy owners to bankroll them to being European powers just within the last decade. Clubs that barely won anything, were never truly big, and then got super rich owners and were suddenly internationally relevant. It's about money, who has the most of it, and they'll sign the best players.

And who has more spending power than America's top 1% besides a handful of foreigners? Hell, even some of England's biggest clubs (Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool FC) are owned by Americans. What makes you think they won't see the upside of investing in MLS instead? Hell Arsenal's majority share holder Stan Kroenke already owns Colorado Rapids. This is just the beginning.

Look forward, gentlemen. The football world won't always be the way it is now, because the markets will demand for it, and investors with vision will make it happen. Like the Sheik and the Yankees are with New York City Football Club right now.

 

[NYCFCFan10]

I have to agree with Nick here.

Who are the two best paying clubs on planet Earth? MCFC and the New York Yankees.

But there is a difference there. The New York Yankees achieved their financial power purely through the power of New York. The family that owns the Yankees are virtually a poverty case compared to Mansour. The family got their wealth as owners of a simple shipping company that wasn't even worth $100 million at the time they bought the Yankees. The sport the Yankees play isn't nearly as popular home and abroad as soccer is to Europe either. Yet there the Yankees are.

Mansour won't live forever and there's no guarantee that his successor will care to splash the cash on the club as Mansour has. That is, of course, assuming UEFA allows Mansour to continue spending as he has.

Luckily for MCFC, Mansour is putting in the infrastructure to keep ManC towards the top of the EPL for a long time to come with or without him.

NYCFC will start life as a sort of feeder club, this is true, but I wouldn't bet against the Empire City...

 

[Vinjay]

Well that's why I brought up the "sovereign wealth" guarantee. We refer to Sheik Mansour of course but ultimately its an Abu Dhabi investment. If something happened to Sheik Mansour tomorrow ADUG would still run smoothly which shows the strength of that group. Its completely different to my recent arguments made about the corporate structure at Red Bull.

No doubt at all in my mind that NY is the most iconic city in the world.

 

[MyBoyVilla]

I honestly think that this thread was created because this MCFC blogger thought he could easily attract us NYCFC supporters to his blog, only to be disappointed to find most of us don't give a shit about MCFC. Now he is lashing out in frustration, in classic holier-than-thou British fashion (no offense to the good Brits on here).

What pathetic response to my post. If MCFC stop existing, so to will NYCFC?! How ridiculously self-centered of an assumption. If MCFC disappear, NYCFC would be sold to new ownership, they would not simply fold in an expanding MLS in a huge market with NY Yankees as a major partner. Unfortunately for our biased friend, NYCFC is becoming, I do not want to say bigger, but certainly independant in its existance from MCFC. We happen to be the little brother now, but if you die, we will go to the funeral and move on with life.

Hope you guys get relegated next season. Basically impossible, but hey, I would savor every second of it.

 

[Nick Chavez]

What pathetic response to my post. If MCFC stop existing, so to will NYCFC?! How ridiculously self-centered of an assumption. If MCFC disappear, NYCFC would be sold to new ownership, they would not simply fold in an expanding MLS in a huge market with NY Yankees as a major partner.

Exactly. Like if City Football Group pull out, for whatever reason (which they'd be very stupid too), Garber wouldn't have other ownership investors (surely not as wealthy, but who cares, this will be NYC's team) lining up to keep the club going. Delusional stuff from this blogger. He'd do well to talk to us with more respect than calling OUR club a "whore" and "feeder club" in OUR forum.

I think this arrogance comes from the blogger assuming that we're "in awe" of Manchester City, which is absurd given the club has won about 3 titles in the last 40+ years. I'm a Real Madrid supporter of about 11 years. I've been to the Bernabeu like 16 times and lived in Madrid. They are the biggest club in the world [9-Time Champion's League winners (record), 32 La Liga Titles (record), 19 Copas Del Rey, 3-time Club World Cup winners, Officially "FIFA's Best Club of the 20th Century" award winners, have the best players in the world in Ronaldo and Bale]. Manchester City are minnows compared to my club, and we further proved that by helping knock them out of the champion's league group by taking 4 points out of both legs a couple season ago. Again, not talking trash about Man City, just the facts.

And we're New York City. 8 million+ strong. By far, the biggest city in the greatest country in the world. The greatest City in the world. Media Capital of the World. The most iconic city in the world. One of the most visited by tourists. Arguably the most influential in the world. The City of Dreams. The Multi-cultural Capital of Humanity. Get the f*** out of here with that shit. Have some respect.

OUR club will be massive, eventually. Never bet against New York City.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

I honestly think that this thread was created because this MCFC blogger thought he could easily attract us NYCFC supporters to his blog,

That's probably the furthest from the truth. His website receives probably tens of thousands of hits a day so I highly doubt that.
I was ASKED to create this section here for edgy posts that stir things up and I did. He posted this here INTENDING to get people a bit riled up... As this section of the forum suggests.
One thing if this was said in the Supporters section but it was posted here with the intention to get people talking.
Also we really have no ground to stand on yet. We have no idea what this club will become. It's natural to think it will be huge and amazing because THATS WHAT WE WANT. But realistically we have no idea.
Our city is 8 million people strong... NYCFC has Only 77K likes on Facebook. MCFC is in a city of 500k with 11.5 Million likes. That's a global club.
New York Yankees at 7 million likes.
That's the Yankees, playing in New York City and playing Americas game... Only 7 million likes.
Don't think for a second that NYCFC will become some world power. Especially judging by those stats. This club will be supported by fans within the city. Will be extremely difficult to draw in fans outside of the U.S. That aren't City fans with us playing in the MLS.

 

[Nick Chavez]

We have 77K followers without a single player signed. Without having played a single game. Of course it wouldn't add up to recent Prem League power like Man City, or the legendary NY Yankees.

"Don't think for a second that NYCFC will become some world power."

Immediately, I don't think so. But 10 years down the line, you don't think that's a realistic possibility? Did you read/consider what I said earlier?:

"And yes, there are a few bigger cities than New York City, but none of them are the media capital of the world, the most iconic city in the world, in a country/league with the best infrastucture and a monopoly on the biggest, most wealthy cities/markets of the world, including Canada's. When MLS loosens financial restrictions enough, and they will, the only league that will be able to compete with them is a UEFA superleague, like the big Champion's League giants, in a table format, which may never materialize. Otherwise, MLS will gobble much of the best talent because they'll simply have the most money, and eventually, the best league.

Remember, it's not all about prestige/tradition. Clubs like Chelsea, Manchester City, PSG and Monaco can tell you that, as very few people gave a rats's ass about them outside of their markets until they got very wealthy owners to bankroll them to being European powers just within the last decade. Clubs that barely won anything, were never truly big, and then got super rich owners and were suddenly internationally relevant. It's about money, who has the most of it, and they'll sign the best players.

And who has more spending power than America's top 1% besides a handful of foreigners? Hell, even some of England's biggest clubs (Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool FC) are owned by Americans. What makes you think they won't see the upside of investing in MLS instead? Hell Arsenal's majority share holder Stan Kroenke already owns Colorado Rapids. This is just the beginning.

Look forward, gentlemen. The football world won't always be the way it is now, because the markets will demand for it, and investors with vision will make it happen. Like the Sheik and the Yankees are with New York City Football Club right now."

MLS will loosen their financial restrictions considerably within the next 10-15 years. And as bigger/better players come into the league, the millions of "eurosnob" soccer fans that live here will also be drawn to their local clubs, their televisions, and people will really begin to respect the league as a "top league", and NYCFC will be one of the "big clubs." And rightfully so. The increased TV dollars, attendance revenue, sponsorship revenue will bring us even more money to invest in better players, and embolden owners to spend more and more on top talent. And that will only continue to grow as soccer is, by far, the biggest sport in the world, and we live in a world community now, constantly consuming world media via internet and vast TV channel packages, unlike any other generation before us. So we, as a nation, will certainly be drawn in to humanity's most important sport, and in a big way. If you haven't noticed, that process is already well under way.

So, tell me again why you think NYCFC will never become a world power...

 

[BlueWolf]

My word, where do I start? Let's go with blogging ...

I don't have to advertise it because the club does that; to all 1.5m Twitter followers, and 7m Facebook followers, and the countless other millions who use neither. Of course you brought this up by looking at my profile, I didn't so thank you for letting everyone know, I appreciate it. Yes, of course I came here to promote something to a few hundred people who do not follow my club, you are completely correct. How could I have been so stupid? Silly me.

Not even the biggest club in Manchester? Would that be the club that is currently 7th, and looking at the possibility of no European football at all? Wow, that's big. Oh right you mean history, sorry. Well, how far are we going back? Just the PL era? Or do we include all history as history? If so, then we must make mention of when City was the biggest club in England. History is history is history.

The City group own NYCFC. Well, yes, they do, but anyone who understands even a tiny bit of business will know why these bodies are set up. NYCFC is owned by MCFC; they will send players to NY for experience, for one last pay-check, and they will take players of their choosing. They will use NYCFC to extend their own reach. Why is that so hard to grasp?

You are proud of your new club, I get that. But to suggest that NCFC will become the bigger of the two, whilst being in a country that has three major sports that are far bigger, that you have salary caps, that at the age of 8 males veer off to play other sports whilst females continue, that it can catch up with a continent that has been doing this for a hundred years successfully, is a little off the mark. NYCFC will become big, but what you are forgetting is that the club needs other surrounding clubs and the league system itself to grow, which of course it will, but not to the extent you are hoping for, and certainly not whilst the other sports are far bigger. And whilst it does grow, the European leagues will continue to grow much bigger than they already are. This is the same sort of thing for clubs lower down, in say, the PL; they simply cannot catch up with those at the top, because they are accelerating far quicker. It's unfair (and also another different conversation for another time), but that's how it is.

Be thankful you have the club you always wanted, but what you can't do is bite the hand that has and is feeding you. I have chosen to follow NYCFC because of MCFC, many others haven't - they couldn't care less, as I said earlier. No one is forcing anyone to do anything, but quite where all this sudden hostility has arisen from, I really do not know. It comes across as "thanks for the money but you can now just fuck off and leave us to do what we want to do" - this is not how things work.

Again, I asked the question so that I could understand. For the most part all I have had are accusations and borderline abuse; not quite what I had in mind as a response - I suspect many here do not quite grasp the concept of what the Warzone is, or perhaps you do but have taken it quite literally, and decided to come in here all guns blazing. Shame that.

 

[Metropolis]

For much of my life I've heard predictions of football being the next big thing, joining the major U.S. sports on the nation's stage. It hasn't happened, and never will happen. The average U.S. sports fan picks up his/her head to show a smattering of interest in the World Cup then goes back to NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, NCAA and four years later says"Oh, is it that time again?" NYCFC's biggest competition isn't the Red Bulls or Man City it's all those other sports. BlueWolf is right to say NYCFC will never be bigger than Man City, and that's a big part of the reason. I'll be happy if they become an MLS power, but most of the country won't care. Most of the city won't care.

 

[NYCFCFan10]

For much of my life I've heard predictions of football being the next big thing, joining the major U.S. sports on the nation's stage. It hasn't happened, and never will happen. The average U.S. sports fan picks up his/her head to show a smattering of interest in the World Cup then goes back to NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, NCAA and four years later says"Oh, is it that time again?" NYCFC's biggest competition isn't the Red Bulls or Man City it's all those other sports. BlueWolf is right to say NYCFC will never be bigger than Man City, and that's a big part of the reason. I'll be happy if they become an MLS power, but most of the country won't care. Most of the city won't care.

For much of your life, did you see top division MLS clubs playing league games to larger crowds than Manchester United or City?

Did you see crowds more energetic than any crowd in England?

No? Guess what that means is happening?

 

[Vito]

The MLS isn't going to get bigger if they don't start playing more games on the weekends. Playing 1 game a week on NBCSN isn't going to grow the brand so until a new tv deal is struck, the MLS will sit below the big three. (NFL, MLB, NBA)

 

[NYCFCFan10]

The MLS isn't going to get bigger if they don't start playing more games on the weekends. Playing 1 game a week on NBCSN isn't going to grow the brand so until a new tv deal is struck, the MLS will sit below the big three. (NFL, MLB, NBA)

Cardinal sin, brah.

Btw, new deal with Fox is forthcoming. I just hope Fox shows more games. Whether that be on the mother station, FS1,FS2, or FSP. I just want more games on national television. It'd be nice if between Fox and ESPN, we could get 50% of MLS games on national television every week.

 

[Vito]

Cardinal sin, brah.

Btw, new deal with Fox is forthcoming. I just hope Fox shows more games. Whether that be on the mother station, FS1,FS2, or FSP. I just want more games on national television. It'd be nice if between Fox and ESPN, we could get 50% of MLS games on national television every week.

I just want more games televised for people who don't pay for MLS Direct Kick

 

[Nick Chavez]

My word, where do I start? Let's go with blogging ...

I don't have to advertise it because the club does that; to all 1.5m Twitter followers, and 7m Facebook followers, and the countless other millions who use neither. Of course you brought this up by looking at my profile, I didn't so thank you for letting everyone know, I appreciate it. Yes, of course I came here to promote something to a few hundred people who do not follow my club, you are completely correct. How could I have been so stupid? Silly me.

Not even the biggest club in Manchester? Would that be the club that is currently 7th, and looking at the possibility of no European football at all? Wow, that's big. Oh right you mean history, sorry. Well, how far are we going back? Just the PL era? Or do we include all history as history? If so, then we must make mention of when City was the biggest club in England. History is history is history.

The City group own NYCFC. Well, yes, they do, but anyone who understands even a tiny bit of business will know why these bodies are set up. NYCFC is owned by MCFC; they will send players to NY for experience, for one last pay-check, and they will take players of their choosing. They will use NYCFC to extend their own reach. Why is that so hard to grasp?

You are proud of your new club, I get that. But to suggest that NCFC will become the bigger of the two, whilst being in a country that has three major sports that are far bigger, that you have salary caps, that at the age of 8 males veer off to play other sports whilst females continue, that it can catch up with a continent that has been doing this for a hundred years successfully, is a little off the mark. NYCFC will become big, but what you are forgetting is that the club needs other surrounding clubs and the league system itself to grow, which of course it will, but not to the extent you are hoping for, and certainly not whilst the other sports are far bigger. And whilst it does grow, the European leagues will continue to grow much bigger than they already are. This is the same sort of thing for clubs lower down, in say, the PL; they simply cannot catch up with those at the top, because they are accelerating far quicker. It's unfair (and also another different conversation for another time), but that's how it is.

Be thankful you have the club you always wanted, but what you can't do is bite the hand that has and is feeding you. I have chosen to follow NYCFC because of MCFC, many others haven't - they couldn't care less, as I said earlier. No one is forcing anyone to do anything, but quite where all this sudden hostility has arisen from, I really do not know. It comes across as "thanks for the money but you can now just fuck off and leave us to do what we want to do" - this is not how things work.

Again, I asked the question so that I could understand. For the most part all I have had are accusations and borderline abuse; not quite what I had in mind as a response - I suspect many here do not quite grasp the concept of what the Warzone is, or perhaps you do but have taken it quite literally, and decided to come in here all guns blazing. Shame that.

Buddy, you came into OUR forum and called our club a "whore" and a "feeder club" for Man City. Very poor form. I don't care what the sub-forum is called, you don't come in here and call someone's club that and expect people to embrace you warmly.

Again, the club is owned by City Football Group, which is owned by the Shiek/Abu Dhabi Group. We can't predict what he'll want to do with any of the clubs once things change. Manchester City, the entity itself, which was oh so recently a mid-table club that didn't win a major trophy since the 70's, owns no other club. The Sheik/ADGU does. No other way to spin that. And we're not "biting" the Sheik's hand, so that comment has no foundation.

Yes, there's a salary cap in MLS, but that's only because TV ratings are low. The cap will be raised increasingly as the game gets more popular (which will be helped by World Cups, USA continuing to become more competitive, more access/exposure to the world's greatest sport that is now available via internet, more expansive cable packages, etc.).

Also, many of our "big leagues" are already being surpassed in populartiy by youth demographics, our growin hispanic immigrant population, etc. Things like Steroids (Baseball), Permanent brain damage/too many commercials (NFL), lack of passion (NBA), and the working class man being priced-out of being able to afford tickets to games is all leading to the decline in these sports. While soccer is the greatest, most important sport in the world, where the passion is the highest, and will never decline, and people here are incrementally beginning to realize this.

Considering the wealth of the USA, the unrivaled big markets in our league, unrivaled infrastructure, increase in monetary investment in MLS, the comforts of star players going to a country where they aren't as famous as they are in Europe (therefore being able to go out in public with more anonymity, to see a movie, go out to eat, whatever), and so on will only continue to make our league more attractive to better and better players.

Make no mistake about it, MLS will be a top league in the world by 2022, and will only increase in quality in popularity from then on. The upside of the world's greatest sport here is unparalled. So, I would never underestimate the draw and potential of New York City Football Club, nor of Major League Soccer. Everything is changing, and quickly.

I'm glad you're speaking with a little more respect to us now. I don't have anything against Manchester City, and was even considering supporting them in the Prem due to their connection with NYCFC. But, "Citizens" coming in here and talking down to the fans of our club and acting like we owe your club something is never going to fly and is only going to hurt relations with your club and its supporters.

The Sheik and the Yankees paid for the historic privelege of establishing a team playing the world's greatest sport, in the world's greatest City. We are definitely thankful to them for that, and very excited about the possibilities, and carrying the "City Flag." We are family now, so come in here with more respect and act like it. And don't be blind to the massive latent potential of New York City Football Club and MLS. I hope we've reached an understanding.

 

[BlueWolf]

I will gladly apologise for the "whore" comment but stand by everything else I've said.

The truth of the matter is that for the foreseeable future, the MLS will be 'the poor man's league'; yes everything you stated about the main sports is true, but they are so far ahead of soccer, that to catch them up let alone surpass them is a massive, massive ask. The moment we hear of a World Class player in his prime signing for an MLS team, then, and only then, will we know the MLS has finally arrived. The potential for income is immense though, I'll agree with that.

Now you see your passion for this club that has yet to play a game? Now imagine how big it will be when they do start playing, when they play derby games, when the press speak ill of them, when you are in the bar and you overhear someone dissing one of your players. That's who I am. You live and breathe your club, you defend it with your life, and you bleed its colours. Everyone else is the enemy. This is why I asked the original question. Not to querie anyone's passion.

Respect also works both ways, fella.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Nick the reason I stated that NYCFC isn't going to be bigger, despite how large NYC is was because of the numbers already in front of us.
U.S. teams, U.S. sports are NOT world powers.
Look at our BIGGEST team, the Yankees, who play in NYC and they only have 7 Million likes on Facebook, a good part of that outside of the U.S. more then likely asian as well.
To think NYCFC will get anywhere near that in the near future is farfetched.
I want our club to succeed and I believe it will. However, I don't think it will be as big as you want it to be.
We'll see the same thing we see with most MLS clubs... a strong native support system. It wont be till much further down the road until you see other New Yorkers jumping the MLB/NFL/NHL train and hoping on the MLS one.

 

[einwindir]

>"Now you see your passion for this club that has yet to play a game? Now imagine how big it will be when they do start playing, when they play derby games, when the press speak ill of them, when you are in the bar and you overhear someone dissing one of your players. That's who I am. You live and breathe your club, you defend it with your life, and you bleed its colours. Everyone else is the enemy. This is why I asked the original question. Not to querie anyone's passion." BlueWolf

This guy gets it.

 

[Falastur]

Aaaaand this is why I questioned the wisdom of speaking in the first place. That said, I disagree with the concept of a forum for arguments and think it just damages the forum community, but that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, my take on the whole "will NYCFC become bigger than MCFC?" thing: at the end of the day, let's put it simply - Sheikh Mansour owns City...both Citys...for the purposes of flagshipping his business empire, for the ultimate purpose of spearheading the UAE's push to diversify its economy away from its heavy dependence on oil exports. He can only do this with a club - or clubs - that operate on the world stage.

Right now, of the three clubs in the CFG, only MCFC operates on the world stage. Right now, if MCFC falters then he will simply continue to invest to make them successful again, because there's no point running the club if it descends into mid-table mediocrity. It won't serve any purpose for him. He wouldn't transfer his attention to NYCFC because even a relegated PL club gets more global attention than an MLS winner. I'm not trying to be in any way insulting to American soccer, but that's just the way it is right now with the popularity of the leagues, and I hope most of you would agree with me.

Now, I do believe that it's technically possible for NYCFC to grow to be the bigger club. However, as I hinted with that last paragraph, I don't think it's as simple as NYCFC just becoming successful. You could build a 100,000-seater stadium and fill it every week, win every trophy going, but it won't be enough. For NYCFC to crack the world market it requires MLS to crack the world market, and that will - in my opinion - require several things: 1) world-class players, which itself means 2) an end to the salary restrictions and 3) competitive games being played against some of the top teams in the world, a la the Champions League.

Now, to address those points:

1 - World-class players should be fairly obviously a requirement. I'm not saying the league would need a monopoly on them, because even the PL isn't crammed with top players, but it would need at least a few major stars in their prime. But as said above, getting them requires:

2 - An end to the salary cap, and various investment restrictions. I consider this to be indelibly linked to the removing of stuff like the draft and the various other ironically socialist stuff which runs through American sports, where the worst teams are given the help they need to become successful again rather than being made to resolve their problems themselves. Now I'm sure most of you will instantly raise protestations against this, but hear me out.

In most sports, this would not be required. I don't doubt that the draft system, wage caps etc, do not restrict the awesome potential of the NFL, which will surely dominate American Football over all rivals forever. But the point is, unlike the NFL which started out as the best and only needs to maintain its status, the MLS is a young league competing in a sport which has a tradition of rewarding success and punishing failure. Let's put it simply - despite things like the UEFA Fair Play stuff, European football will not ever adopt such measures as restrictive wage caps, the draft system and such. The players would be up in arms at any attempt to cut their pay drastically, and any attempt to stop successful teams from compounding their success will result in a breakaway European Super League, and the collapse of UEFA, and possibly FIFA, as a result. Billionaire owners are willing right now to accept some limitations to their spending as it saves a bit of cash, but the day you ask Roman Abramovic or whoever it is that owns Liverpool to let Swansea, Villa and Crystal Palace catch them up in success because they just a trophy and the weaker teams didn't, you'll have a riot on your hands.

Incidentally, to Nick Chavez, who raised the idea of billionaire owners of European teams getting involved in the MLS - this is why I don't think they would treat it seriously. US billionaires like the US system, I dare say, because teams are moderately restricted and don't make huge losses. You point to US billionaires in English football, but the simple fact is that they have a reputation in England for being unwilling to commit enough money to make a difference. Arsenal fans want Kroenke out and Ushmanov to take over because Kroenke refuses to invest. Similarly, the Villa fans want Randy Lerner to sell up now because he treats the club as something to provide him money, whereas the fans want him to be what provides the club with money. The opposite is the case for foreign investors in MLS. They come in with the viewpoint that the more you spend, the better you do. MLS doesn't work like that.

So the only possible solution here is for MLS to adapt to the customs of the rest of the world, or at least some of them. I don't, for example, believe that promotion/relegation is necessarily required. However, it would all be a hard sell. Most franchise owners will not like the idea of switching to a system where the person who invests most wins most, so it would take a massive, massive culture change. That's going to take decades to happen. I can't sugar coat it. It will take at least a generation.

3 - The problem with MLS right now is that it's isolated from most of the top teams of the world, who all play in Europe. Sure, there are famous clubs in SA, but they can't really match the fame of Barca, Chelsea or AC Milan, except perhaps to Hispanic populations, but MLS cannot become a top league based solely off its Spanish-descended population and ignoring the rest. Right now, your only options are friendlies and the Club World Cup. Simply put, neither of these are enough. You need regular games. The problem is, this requires at the least some kind of mixed Euro-NA Champions League or perhaps even a World Super League. Clearly, these are things which will not happen in even the mid-distance future. Now, those of you who have talked about the physical demands of the flying around the USA for MLS games should be able to see what the problem with this is, and why it would take quite a while before European teams were willing to agree to such a competition. Again, I don't think it's impossible, but we're talking about a culture change. Also, not to be harsh, but the European clubs simply won't consider it until MLS is a rising league which is threatening to match European leagues in prestige.



I want to restate. I do believe that this is realistic. I just think it will take ages. I'm thinking 30-50 years, but I'll freely admit to pulling those numbers out of my backside because they sound vaguely approximate.

I also want to point out that I don't believe that only one club can be king, and the other team can only ever have the status of feeder in the meantime. I believe that as NYCFC's reputation increases then the two will be equals, preferably working in harmony to help each other but perhaps even competing for signings etc. This is achievable in a much, much shorter timeframe. But if you want to know when you can expect NYCFC to become the bigger club and actually expect MCFC to pass it the promising players and so on, I think we're talking 1-2 generations.