Maybe It's Me, But ...

Disagree. Liverpool's owners have spent - not as much as City/Chelsea, but they've been spending around £50m a season recently, and the only reason that UEFA didn't investigate them for their massive financial losses was because they only investigate teams playing in Europe, which Liverpool haven't been this year. Arsenal have done well by the standards of most of the league, but they've gone a decade without a trophy, and just when they might win the FA Cup, they look like falling out of the Champions League. This will force them to invest more or suffer years of mediocrity, and I fear they might just accept the mediocrity instead of investing. As I already said, Arsenal's fans are calling for Kroenke's head precisely because he refuses to commit money to the project. He's seen as holding them back. As for United, well the only reason they've remained successful is because their huge operating profits have kept them afloat. God forbid they ever start to make losses because it could cause untold damage, especially with some seriously hefty loan refinancing to be done before 2017. It's not for no reason that the press are saying that they might refuse to enter the Europa League so that they can pack their calendar with friendlies next season, for which a PL club can typically earn several million pounds per game.

You're right about the attraction of the PL, although I'd argue that merely being competitive is not the whole story. I mean, Serie A has seen some real volatility in terms of its giants falling from grace recently. Up until PSG, Ligue 1 was similarly open to a number of clubs, at least since Olympique Marseille's dominance ended about 6-7 years ago. And yet they're not as big. As for the upper echelons, I think the only way you could argue that England doesn't have any top category teams is if you reserve the top category solely for Real and Barca, and let's be honest, the reason they are so attractive is that you can afford to do things like building a team of galacticos or grooming an entire team from your youth academy when 80% of the opposition are so poor that you can win half of your games by at least four goals, when the league rules allow you to negotiate individual £200m/year TV deals (which, incidentally, will no longer happen from 2016 so bye bye massive revenues) and when the Spanish government itself breaks the system to ensure that you have all the money you could ever need. Spain's top two are there but by the grace of a massively flawed national system which is being rectified. In 10 years they will still be the top two clubs, but they won't quite seem the world-dominating diamonds of the game, I suspect.

As for MLS, you're very right that you have some huge cities in the US, and they lend very well to making for packed stadia of die-hard fans. But the issue is capturing the imagination of the rest of the world. We don't really care how big your cities are, just as I'm sure you don't care about how big ours are. Sure, we know more of your cities than we know of yours but as we've previously debated, glorying in the reputation and character of a city is an American trait, not a European, or really rest-of-the-world type trait. You may have some exotic cities, but people outside the US won't really care. After all, who cares if Miami has 200 miles of pristine beaches if none of them appear on the TV screens during the games. People from outside the US aren't ever going to see those cities in person anyway, except perhaps once in their lives to make a pilgrimage to their favourite MLS club. It works the same with European clubs. Madrid, for example, is a complete hole. It's an over-industrialised city with no character. But Real are a glamour club. Similarly, Liverpool is really not an attractive city. Neither is Dortmund. But they attract world followings because of their teams, not because of their cities. The only way an MLS club will become a world power is through on-field performance.
If the money is the same, and the leagues are competitively the same, you think a guy like Ronaldo would pick Manchester over Miami or Los Angele? I don't.

MLS will eventually grow and be a league where every week is like Champions League. There won't be boring little teams like Norwich, Cardiff, Southampton, Hull, ect. Players will find this prestigious in and of itself.

Another thing you haven't considered is that the league will pay the transfer fees for important players. That's a pretty damn big advantage. The salary cap will eventually rise to a level where it virtually won't matter that we have one. Especially if your top 3 players are off the books.

Other advantages we enjoy include being an english speaking country with huge amounts of immigrants from all over the world. We have Montreal which is a French-first city. We have Miami which is practically Spanish first. We have cities that more people worldwide can relate to and that will reflect in the clubs.
 
If the money is the same, and the leagues are competitively the same, you think a guy like Ronaldo would pick Manchester over Miami or Los Angele? I don't.

MLS will eventually grow and be a league where every week is like Champions League. There won't be boring little teams like Norwich, Cardiff, Southampton, Hull, ect. Players will find this prestigious in and of itself.

Another thing you haven't considered is that the league will pay the transfer fees for important players. That's a pretty damn big advantage. The salary cap will eventually rise to a level where it virtually won't matter that we have one. Especially if your top 3 players are off the books.

Very well said, and I think we'll also have more than 3 DPs in the future. Hell, doesn't Toronto technically have 4 now (called a "League DP"). Rules are changing, and changing for the better, with goal of getting all of America's soccer fans, which are many, on board, and tourning our league into a more glamorous one, attractive not just locally, but globally. High ambition, but in America, playing the world's sport... anything is possible, and indeed, likely, given enough time/investment.
 
Very well said, and I think we'll also have more than 3 DPs in the future. Hell, doesn't Toronto technically have 4 now (called a "League DP"). Rules are changing, and changing for the better, with goal of getting all of America's soccer fans, which are many, on board, and tourning our league into a more glamorous one, attractive not just locally, but globally. High ambition, but in America, playing the world's sport... anything is possible, and indeed, likely, given enough time/investment.

I'd imagine A LOT of owners would jump to buy a Messi or Ronaldo if the league takes care of the transfer fee. Wouldn't you Nick? MLS is already getting near 100 million every expansion team they add. I think they'll stop at 24 for a few years, let that entrance fee soar, then start adding teams again at like $250 million a pop. Can pay a lot of transfer fees with that...
 
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Being a City fan, my opinion could be kind of bias, but I feel that if say Chelsea, Arsenal, or even United were to have close ties with NYCFC, I would still love to support them. Being close to a team from the start shouldn't have to be depended on teams you already like, but it should depend on if you are willing to like a new franchise from the start, no matter who it has close ties to.
 
The only answer I can give you is we are not United supporters in the sense you might be a City supporter. We will always value NYC over any foreign club that we do not attend games for, do not have a camraderie with other fans (inperson) and do not feel a locational connection to. We like them, we root for them, but we don't live and die for them, just like we don't for our La Liga or Bundesliga team.

Another factor may be that we are more loyal to NYC than you are to Tampa. That may be something unique to the culture of NYC and not Tampa, or maybe the fact that you weren't born there weakens your loyalties. Not so for us. If Spurs (my EPL club) bought an MLS club in a different city, I would not support it. NYC always comes first

I guess in a nutshell, you can say we did not pick NYCFC, it picked us. We were going to support our city's team, be it NYRB relocated and rebranded, or Cosmos, or NYCFC, or even Al Quedas team (ok maybe not that). Whether it run with or against our loyalties in Europe or any other country or any other sport.

We are NYC first and foremost. If you cannot experience that kind of loyalty to your city, I feel bad. I am lucky to have that and it guides me in my loyalties.

I don't necessarily agree with this assessment. As I mentioned earlier (and obviously by my avatar), I'm a huge Arsenal supporter. I don't know if anything will ever trump that, although I hope that NYCFC gives it a run for the money. I'm extremely passionate about supporting them, have been to England to see games, go watch games with the NYC Arsenal supporters (where the atmosphere is tremendous), and read about them on a daily, almost obsessive basis, every single day.

Also, like I said earlier, if the club WERE owned by a different PL club there is a good chance I would have a problem with it but being that it is Man City I can accept the fact. I just don't hate them as much as I despise some of the others (United, Spurs, etc.). So far the club (or should I say City umbrella group), has done the right thing by giving the team it's own identity; promoting support from those who support other clubs and getting involved in the community in a very positive way. There's no secret that they have big overall plans with both clubs' futures intertwined, and I don't see a problem with that.

They and MLS know the risk of alienating potential fans and I think that this line of thinking will ultimately take precedence over anything else. Shutting out any contingency of supporters will only hurt the club and their overall goals in the long run.

So I both see and don't see the big to-do about other PL supporters jumping on board. But, to each their own, right?

As for the power of MLS in the future, I think it will take a lot longer than 2022 as Nick mentioned but I think it will happen. The untapped potential for soccer in this country is tremendous. Ten years ago I could barely watch PL games on TV let alone actually talk about it with anyone. Now I have access to every single game on my television or computer and know so many people who watch week in and week out that I literally can't believe it. And that's just ten years. As MLS continues to grow, and generations of kids and adults grow up with the league (and don't remember a time without it or when it sucked), the quality of play and investment will also exponentially continue to grow and it WILL undoubtedly become on the world's top leagues.
 
If the money is the same, and the leagues are competitively the same, you think a guy like Ronaldo would pick Manchester over Miami or Los Angele? I don't.

MLS will eventually grow and be a league where every week is like Champions League. There won't be boring little teams like Norwich, Cardiff, Southampton, Hull, ect. Players will find this prestigious in and of itself.

Ah, I see - you're referring to players joining clubs. Well I'll grant you that, although I think you're being a little naive if you believe that places like Chicago, Houston or Salt Lake are seen as exotic or attractive places over here - and I would argue that the likes of Barcelona, Monaco and Milan will continue to rival even the best cities of the USA as picturesque, beach-covered (obv. not Milan), cultured cities which are ideal to live in.

I can't quite get on board with that second paragraph. It's one thing saying you think MLS could grow to be a league which rivals the best of Europe, it's one thing to say that you think NYCFC might become bigger than MCFC, it's quite another thing to say that you think that every - or even many - MLS clubs are going to grow to obliterate even the very best European clubs for prestige. I just simply can't see a world where every MLS club is seen as amazing and exciting and prestigious, to the point where the MLS by itself compares in reputation to the Champions League in its entirety. That just seems ludicrously blue-sky-thinking to me. I understand that it is in the American mindset to believe that you are always destined to be the best at everything, but this just seems impossible to me. It's like stating that you believe there will come a point when your classic playboy European millionaire banker or Chinese demagogue local Party official would rather buy a second-hand Chevrolet than a brand new Rolls Royce or Ferrari or Lamborghini, just because of the strength of the US car industry. It's one thing claiming that an MLS team, or even half a dozen, may come to be ranked among the world's top clubs. That could happen. But to claim that the MLS will become so strong that there will be no such thing as a club which is not prestigious to play for? To claim that MLS will not know the meaning of the words "mediocre club". That's just a little bit too much for me.

Anyway, it's getting late and I don't really want to get dragged deeper into this argument as I tend to get quite vehement and hot-blooded when I write long posts like this and I don't like where it takes me mentally, so I'm going to bow out of this thread and leave you all to debate it amongst yourselves.
 
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Ah, I see - you're referring to players joining clubs. Well I'll grant you that, although I think you're being a little naive if you believe that places like Chicago, Houston or Salt Lake are seen as exotic or attractive places over here - and I would argue that the likes of Barcelona, Monaco and Milan will continue to rival even the best cities of the USA as picturesque, beach-covered (obv. not Milan), cultured cities which are ideal to live in.

I can't quite get on board with that second paragraph. It's one thing saying you think MLS could grow to be a league which rivals the best of Europe, it's one thing to say that you think NYCFC might become bigger than MCFC, it's quite another thing to say that you think that every - or even many - MLS clubs are going to grow to obliterate even the very best European clubs for prestige. I just simply can't see a world where every MLS club is seen as amazing and exciting and prestigious, to the point where the MLS by itself compares in reputation to the Champions League in its entirety. That just seems ludicrously blue-sky-thinking to me. I understand that it is in the American mindset to believe that you are always destined to be the best at everything, but this just seems impossible to me. It's like stating that you believe there will come a point when your classic playboy European millionaire banker or Chinese demagogue local Party official would rather buy a second-hand Chevrolet than a brand new Rolls Royce or Ferrari or Lamborghini, just because of the strength of the US car industry. It's one thing claiming that an MLS team, or even half a dozen, may come to be ranked among the world's top clubs. That could happen. But to claim that the MLS will become so strong that there will be no such thing as a club which is not prestigious to play for? To claim that MLS will not know the meaning of the words "mediocre club". That's just a little bit too much for me.

Anyway, it's getting late and I don't really want to get dragged deeper into this argument as I tend to get quite vehement and hot-blooded when I write long posts like this and I don't like where it takes me mentally, so I'm going to bow out of this thread and leave you all to debate it amongst yourselves.
I wasn't thinking every MLS team would be better than every UCL team. In fact, it will take changes in Europe for any MLS team to surpass Real Madrid or Barcelona ever likely.

That's not what I meant. What I mean is I expect every MLS team to exist between Arsenal and Newcastle as far as quality and wages go.

Consider this, the average MLB team is worth $750 million (Forbes, 2013). The Yankees are worth $2.3 billion, the LA dodgers were just sold for $2 billion. The AVERAGE revenue of each team is $227 million.

21 MLB clubs pay more than $90 million in total player wages. LA is on top at 230 mil, NYY is second at 200 mil. The 2 lowest clubs pay $44 and $47 mil. The third lowest (team 27) pays $77 million.

27 of 30 MLB clubs still turn a profit.

Compare that to the EPL,

Using 2012-13 numbers, we see the top 5 clubs pay between 202 mil pounds to 119 mil pounds. Tottenham comes in at 6th at 90 mil pounds. Then the 7th club, Villa, pays 70 mil pounds. So by team 7 in EPL we are at a payroll similar to team 27 in MLB. Jumping down to team 14 Swansea pays 35 mil pounds. Norwich at 15 pays 34 million. We have no numbers below 15 but those clubs include: Hull, Crystal Palace, Cardiff, Southampton, and West Ham so ya know.

In 2012, 8 of the 20 clubs in the EPL posted profits before taxes, that number will drop after taxes.

I believe MLB is the most vertical of all major American leagues as they have no salary cap. The point being that these clubs in MLB pay these salaries and could still pay much, much more to match the losses of these EPL clubs. MLS should be able to match or exceed MLB revenue long term.
 
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MLS will eventually grow and be a league where every week is like Champions League. There won't be boring little teams like Norwich, Cardiff, Southampton, Hull, ect. Players will find this prestigious in and of itself.

This is one of the most arrogant and insulting statements in regards to football that I've ever read. You've managed to insult any supporter of those clubs and show very little understanding to those clubs.

American arrogance will only get you so far and while ambition is good you'll still need some talent to make it.. MLS has a long way to go. Try not to insult your fellow supporters along the way.
 
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This is one of the most arrogant and insulting statements in regards to football that I've ever read. You've managed to insult any supporter of those clubs and show very little understanding to those clubs.

American arrogance will only get you so far and while ambition is good you'll still need some talent to make it.. MLS has a long way to go. Try not to insult your fellow supporters along the way.
You're right I really must apologize to those little insignficant clubs. So I'm sorry no one cares about your clubs, offended fans. Please be NYCFC fans.

But not you Hull fans. The whole mauled by the tigers thing is the most embrrassing act I've ever seen human beings willingly submit themselves to. You are not welcome here.

 
2022
You're right I really must apologize to those little insignficant clubs. So I'm sorry no one cares about your clubs, offended fans. Please be NYCFC fans.

But not you Hull fans. The whole mauled by the tigers thing is the most embrrassing act I've ever seen human beings willingly submit themselves to. You are not welcome here.


I know you don't care, but many don't care about this one either. They would also mock the MLS in general and the fact that this club isn't actually a club because they are still 1 year away from playing a competitive match. Probably you would offer a resounding "fuck 'em, I don't care what they think" but that would be counter-productive, and just prove their thoughts and feelings, perhaps initiating hate towards this fine club and making that hate and contempt grow. What this club needs are good natured fans, good humored fans - the hate will come when NYCFC start to win things but at least this will be born out of envy and not the fact that the fans act like arses. When we have something to shout about, by all means shout it. Until then, whilst this club has done cock-all, I would advise you keep schtum a tad.

Just keeping this thread alive for the popcorn eaters out there.
 
2022


I know you don't care, but many don't care about this one either. They would also mock the MLS in general and the fact that this club isn't actually a club because they are still 1 year away from playing a competitive match. Probably you would offer a resounding "fuck 'em, I don't care what they think" but that would be counter-productive, and just prove their thoughts and feelings, perhaps initiating hate towards this fine club and making that hate and contempt grow. What this club needs are good natured fans, good humored fans - the hate will come when NYCFC start to win things but at least this will be born out of envy and not the fact that the fans act like arses. When we have something to shout about, by all means shout it. Until then, whilst this club has done cock-all, I would advise you keep schtum a tad.

Just keeping this thread alive for the popcorn eaters out there.
You're right. They don't care what I think and I don't care what they think. Mutually Assured Apathy at the moment.
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Sorry BlueWolf BlueWolf, but what you don't seem to get is that NYCFC is New York's club, not yours. We may support Man U or Arsenal or whoever in EPL, but we don't live there. We don't care about that club as much as you would, because it is not our hometown. Your league is secondary to MLS because we live here.

Your analogy to the Jets/Giants is ass-backward. The equivalent this situation (New Yorkers supporting Man U, then supporting NYCFC) is if your pretentious self living whatever rainy hellhole in England you come from, were a fan of the New York Giants. Then, the Jets established a sister team in a hypothetical American Football league in England. Right in your fucking backyard. If you would rather support an American Football team from a different city in England than the one in your hometown, just because its ownership is against your rooting interests in a foreign league... well then you won't understand why we New Yorkers feel loyalty to NYCFC, regardless of our interests in EPL.

Because, no matter how big of fans of EPL clubs we may be, we really don't give a fuck about you, your country, or your league. They were just our whores to use until we had a local team to support. We are New Yorkers, first and foremost.


And people like you and your snobbery are the reasons Americans hate the British footballing world. You shit all over our internationals, our domestic league and our fandom. You think our world revolves around your league, and can't fathom why would prioritize MLS over foreign soccer. Yeah, we are not strong enough or ready to fight it, but the abuse keeps coming, and eventually we will stand up to you miserable lot. Meanwhile, I will thoroughly enjoy as your club crashes and burns through the end of the EPL season.

Cheers. Or not.
You're just a ray of fucking sunshine aren't you. This is whats wrong with this forum. Your 1st point is 100% incorrect. NYC does not own NYCFC. CFG does. Your disrespect toward England somehow goes unnoticed, yet if it's the other way around, warning & bans fly freely.
 
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Wow, Mr. Blue Wolf is about as near-sighted as many of our local naysayers. Incredible coming from an "official MCFC blogger." Someone tell this guy that New York City is literally 16 times the market of Manchester, and we're not competing with the most popular club in the world in our market, we're competing against RBNY. He acts like Man City is the be-all-end-all when they haven't won a trophy since the 1970's until the Sheik bought the club in 2008 and you finally won something again in 2011.

Man City's "whore"? Why pay 100 Million for a "whore"? Why bother trying to build a $400 million stadium in NYC, all that trouble and heavy cost for a "feeder club"? Why hire the best business/athletic professionals locally and in the US Soccer realm? Why not just buy a club with a stadium in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Columbia, where all the talent already is? Why even bother with New York City and the massive headache that it is here to get that done?

Because the Sheik/Soriano know which way the wind blows. New York City FC's upside can easily dwarf Manchester City's in the coming decades. Hmmm... let's see.. what's more appealing? A market of 8 million people (NYC) in the media capital of the world/world's most iconic city or a market of 500,00o (Manchester). For you too assume that NYCFC won't one day be the Sheik's priority shows quite the lack of realistic vision, as does asssuming that the EPL will always be bigger than MLS.

Why would supporters of other EPL clubs be fans of New York City, foregoing their "loyalty" to their EPL club to support NYCFC? That's easy. Because their loyalty to New York City trumps any loyalty to ANY club in the world, especially one that's across the ocean in a place that many of them have never been to.

The club's name is New York City Football Club, and you'd do well to remember that. And now that the club is established, and the stadium will be built, City Football Group can leave if they want to (they won't), and we'll still have it forever and we'll keep it going as long as New York City exists. I hope I answered your question.

Oh... and by the way, New York City Football Club aren't owned by Manchester City. They're owned by "City Football Group" (which is owned by the Sheik/Abu Dhabi United Group) and the New York Yankees. Manchester City itself owns no foreign club. You'd also do well to remember that, because if the Sheik goes, so too does so much that your club now takes for granted, which is your lottery ticket that now allows you to realistically compete for actual titles. If that ever goes, then you'll find out how much Manchester City FC actually own. Good talk.
In terms of league popularity, MLS isn't a blip on the radar of world football. Many many many more people worldwide know of MCFC than NYCFC. That will not change for the forseeable future.
And here we go gain with the tired rhetoric of Mansour leaving. 1st of all, no one invest over $1B to just walk away. 2nd, if the Sheikh left tomorrow, MCFC would be self sustaining as we are breaking even this year & will be profitable from next year. Also, if the Sheikh left, so goes NYCFC.

How utterly stupid for you to say if Mansour leave MCFC, MCFC is screwed yet he can leave NYCFC, while NYCFC has all of 1 player and no games played, and they'll be fine. Naive at best, arrogant stupidity at worst.
 
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Nick's a little too much for me when it comes to how big NYCFC and the MLS can become. I appreciate his excitement but thinking any of this is going to eclipse the Premier League is just a little too far over the moon for me.
By his metric, Beijing or Mumbai should be the places to install clubs as their population is on par with NYC and they probably have leagues that are older or more established than the MLS which should provide for more traction globally.

Grand, I would say that things would change massively though if Sheikh Mansour would decide to end his ownership of MCFC. We could still be a viable club but we wouldn't have the reserves of cash obviously to tap into. Nick is a bit naive to think any MCFC supporter takes Mansour's ownership for granted. Either way, I hope that day never comes.
 
Nick's a little too much for me when it comes to how big NYCFC and the MLS can become. I appreciate his excitement but thinking any of this is going to eclipse the Premier League is just a little too far over the moon for me.
By his metric, Beijing or Mumbai should be the places to install clubs as their population is on par with NYC and they probably have leagues that are older or more established than the MLS which should provide for more traction globally.

Grand, I would say that things would change massively though if Sheikh Mansour would decide to end his ownership of MCFC. We could still be a viable club but we wouldn't have the reserves of cash obviously to tap into. Nick is a bit naive to think any MCFC supporter takes Mansour's ownership for granted. Either way, I hope that day never comes.

I posted 2 links yesterday from bluemoon forum regarding how City fans view the Sheikh & what would have been if he never came & saved MCFC. Falling on deaf ears I'm afraid. City supportes do not take Mansour for granted & we know we won the football equivalent of a $500M Powerball lottery.

I fully understand wanting to be your own identity. But never forget the roots of this club.
 
grandsolo grandsolo
I'll say it since no one else will. I've stuck up for you before a couple times because I feel the need to
protect the interests of the Forum and it's users. We are, for the most part, allowed to say whatever we want as long as it adds to the conversation. But if you don't like the Forums, why are you here? IF you have an issue with (most of) the userbase and you prefer to be in the company of MCFC Supporters, why are you here? Are you forgetting the name of the forum? NYCFC forums. The problem with the Forums isn't guys like @MyBoyCity it's EuroSnobs who fail to adapt to what we are trying to build here.
 
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Here are some things I think are true:

1) City Group should be commended for wanting to invest heavily in this club
2) You can like NYCFC without liking (or even disliking) MCFC or any European soccer/football club
3) MLS should have ambitions to grow as a league into one day rivaling the biggest leagues in the world
4) MLS has a long way to go and many obstacles to overcome before rivaling the biggest leagues in the world.

Is any of this actually controversial? If so, why does this threat exist?