NYCFC Season Discussion 2023: We Know What We Are, But Not What We May Be

Who Is Most To Blame For The Failure Of The 2023 Season?

  • Nick Cushing

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • David Lee

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • Brad Sims

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Marty Edelman

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • CFG

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • Total voters
    17
Remember 2021, when the Revs broke the point record? We were all commenting then that they were all super close 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 games. They rode quite a lucky streak for basically the whole season. Once they lost Turner and Buchana, they regressed back to the mean. I think we are similar to that revs team in that we are unlucky. I think tonight at Columbus if their goalie, Shulte hadn’t stood on his head we would have scored 1 or 2 more. Even one more goal kills off this game. So while I understand that go to the corner and kill time approach when you’re a head, heck I was even calling for it in the match, I don’t blame our boys for taking shots to try and kill off the game too.
 
Because 538 isn't update anymore, I can't look somewhere to lament about our playoff chances. No wait, there's this. 28% of making the playoffs.

 
We've only scored 5 multi goal games this season (of 23 games played). And in those matches, we're 3-1-1. David Lee, where is our striker?
 
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Here's the current PPG table:

Screenshot 2023-07-16 at 2.58.25 PM.png

The red line has been bouncing between 42 and 44 for more than a month. So right now Montreal is essentially at 43, which we have to exceed because with all the ties NYCFC loses the Most Wins tie-breaker to anyone with the same number of points. So the target is 44, though it could reasonably be as low as 42 or as high as 46 without surprising me. Notable that Chicago is now closer to skipping the play in game than they are to missing it. The last time I posted this table the Fire had 1.15 PPG.

If we finish at _____ we end up with __ points:

Screenshot 2023-07-16 at 2.58.51 PM.png

Five wins is a minimum to have a shot (well maybe 4 wins and 6 draws gets it done). Six gets NYCFC to I think 50% or better. Seven wins I think is 70% or better, and might get close to avoiding the play in game. To date, NYCFC faced the third hardest H/A blended opponent PPG at 1.49, and has the second easiest remaining at 1.16.

As of now, this team is worse than 2015. That team actually regressed over the final 10 despite adding Pirlo, Lampard, Angelino and Iraola and finished with 3 wins, 6 losses, and 1 draw.


Screenshot 2023-07-16 at 3.24.58 PM.png

Finally, after NYCFC achieved its first ever season in which at least one DP did not miss 10 games or more in 2022, things are not looking so good in 2023. Martins has missed 8 and so can miss only 1 more game without hitting 10. Talles and Santi have both missed only 2 games each after the Talles DNP last night.
 
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Sounds like we had a scrimmage today against ATX -- anyone know how it turned out?
 
Sounds like we had a scrimmage today against ATX -- anyone know how it turned out?
Very spotty info floating around. I’m not sure it was a game per se. Someone claimed they played two 60 minute sessions, but I don’t even know if that’s true.
 
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We’re going to beat Miami and hold them to 1 goal or less.
We’ve had the best organized defense in MLS for 4-5 years. Only way this is wrong is if Messi pulls a Zelarayan.
 
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We’re going to beat Miami and hold them to 1 goal or less.
We’ve had the best organized defense in MLS for 4-5 years. Only way this is wrong is if Messi pulls a Zelarayan.

i mean... our ability to commit a silly foul right outside the box is unrivaled. i'll call it now. Pellegrini will run someone over in his excitement that he's on the same field as messi. lol.
 
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i mean... our ability to commit a silly foul right outside the box is unrivaled. i'll call it now. Pellegrini will run someone over in his excitement that he's on the same field as messi. lol.
At this point we need a survivor competition for “when will Miami lose again?” Sure looks like the memo is out for Miami to win everything.
 
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I honestly think NYCFC will handle Miami better defensively than any club has so far, and unless someone else figures it out before us they will be ill equipped to handle it. Of course their stars can pull magic out of their ears but every team so far has kind of collapsed. Even Dallas.
I don’t think we will. For all the offensive flaws I think Cushing is a very strong defensive coach and we’ll be better set up than any team so far at least.
 
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I honestly think NYCFC will handle Miami better defensively than any club has so far, and unless someone else figures it out before us they will be ill equipped to handle it. Of course their stars can pull magic out of their ears but every team so far has kind of collapsed. Even Dallas.
I don’t think we will. For all the offensive flaws I think Cushing is a very strong defensive coach and we’ll be better set up than any team so far at least.
Maybe I just dreamed it, but I thought I posted it, Nick Cushing and the NYCFC coaches need to get on a call with Pep and the Man City coaches before we play Miami to get the know-how on how to defend against the Inter Miami/Barcelona team...
 
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Maybe I just dreamed it, but I thought I posted it, Nick Cushing and the NYCFC coaches need to get on a call with Pep and the Man City coaches before we play Miami to get the know-how on how to defend against the Inter Miami/Barcelona team...

pretty sure pep was asked how he would defend messi when city played barca or psg or whatever. and pep's answer was you can't. of course that's the public press conference answer.
 
It’s common to think your team is snakebit, but it cannot really be common. Bell curves suggest a few teams will have great good fortune, a few very bad, and most kind of normal. I recently read a comment in another platform where a NYCFC fan suggested a typical game is to dominate every statistic and lose. I thought, that’s not true overall because the team has won a lot more than it has lost. And it’s not true this year because with few exceptions including last weekend, NYCFC does not dominate any stats except maybe possession. Other teams shoot more, create more and better chances, and it’s no surprise we score fewer goals.

IMG_0641.jpeg
This is a table of every NYCFC team sorted by Points minus xPoints per game, and well, 2023 NYCFC is both bad because it generates the fewest xG per game in its history, and the team is particularly unlucky. XPoints is a number that reflects how many points a team should earn in any given game given the shots it takes and allows. It should be a bit more meaningful than GD minus xGD, because it accounts for games where, eg, you get 4.4 xG, give up 0.3, and win 2-1. You had bad luck of a sort because you did worse in both scoring and conceding, but in the end you still got 3 points so who cares?
In 2023, NYCFC. Is underperforming to the extent of 9-10 points total so far. The team should be in 7th or 8th place. And yes, I do think it is mostly luck, unless you want to say that Keris in 2015 was better at eking out results relative to performance than Delia in 2021. If you want to blame Nick, focus on the fact that this team generates the lowest xG per game of any NYCFC team ever. Blame that on him, the roster, both, however you want. It drives me nuts this year as Nick keeps saying the team had its chances but failed to be clinical because in fact, the team generally didn’t generate a lot of chances and that has been the problem. But xPt divergence is pretty random. This team is not quite as bad as its record reflects and that should be considered when judging performance.
That said, it is kind of weird (yet probably means nothing) that the 4 worst xPT seasons are 2020-2023. From 2015-2019 NYCFC was mildly to very lucky. From 2020 to now, it flipped. Here is the same table showing cumulative figures not adjusted per game.
IMG_0640.jpeg

That 2019 Torrent/Heber team was good, but not as good as it seemed. Among other things it benefitted from an insane finishing rate by Heber (and others). Vieira’s 2017 team was probably a lot better than his 2016 team, even though they were just 3 points apart. Honestly, all of this tracks to me, including that the 2021 team was much better than its second half slump made it seem. It was probably NYCFC’s best team. It had the highest xPts in 2021, more than New England even. That team deserved to win and it was no surprise when it did. And these numbers are a good part of the reason my position on Delia Out was a firm “NO” but for Cushing Out I’m a firm ”Maybe.” 2021 NYCFC was a good, well run team with bad luck. 2023 is a bad roster with a weak offense I think could be better, which also has had bad luck.
But the team also showed a much improved offense against Minnesota even though the goals did not come. If that continues, regardless of results, don’t be shocked if certain people keep their jobs.
And overall, NYCFC has a slightly positive Pts over xPts balance. The actual Goal Differential is about 22 goals better than xG differential, and that is mostly due to offense. NYC has over time significantly scored more than one would expect. Plus, from 2015 to now, NYCFC has scored more goals than any team in MLS, with an 18 goal gap to second (Philly). To emphasize, yes this include both 2015 and 2023: the most goals in MLS by a lot. If you wonder why I repeatedly jump on complaints about bad finishing, or when someone in chat says the team should have scored 3 goals in the first half if it was remotely clinical, this is why. NYCFC almost always scored more than you can reasonably expect And if you think otherwise your expectations are unreasonable. How much more than the rest of the league should NYCFC have Compared to what it already has?

But luck? NYCFC is close to even overall, and maybe due for a swing back to positive based off recent play.
 
It’s common to think your team is snakebit, but it cannot really be common. Bell curves suggest a few teams will have great good fortune, a few very bad, and most kind of normal. I recently read a comment in another platform where a NYCFC fan suggested a typical game is to dominate every statistic and lose. I thought, that’s not true overall because the team has won a lot more than it has lost. And it’s not true this year because with few exceptions including last weekend, NYCFC does not dominate any stats except maybe possession. Other teams shoot more, create more and better chances, and it’s no surprise we score fewer goals.

View attachment 12965
This is a table of every NYCFC team sorted by Points minus xPoints per game, and well, 2023 NYCFC is both bad because it generates the fewest xG per game in its history, and the team is particularly unlucky. XPoints is a number that reflects how many points a team should earn in any given game given the shots it takes and allows. It should be a bit more meaningful than GD minus xGD, because it accounts for games where, eg, you get 4.4 xG, give up 0.3, and win 2-1. You had bad luck of a sort because you did worse in both scoring and conceding, but in the end you still got 3 points so who cares?
In 2023, NYCFC. Is underperforming to the extent of 9-10 points total so far. The team should be in 7th or 8th place. And yes, I do think it is mostly luck, unless you want to say that Keris in 2015 was better at eking out results relative to performance than Delia in 2021. If you want to blame Nick, focus on the fact that this team generates the lowest xG per game of any NYCFC team ever. Blame that on him, the roster, both, however you want. It drives me nuts this year as Nick keeps saying the team had its chances but failed to be clinical because in fact, the team generally didn’t generate a lot of chances and that has been the problem. But xPt divergence is pretty random. This team is not quite as bad as its record reflects and that should be considered when judging performance.
That said, it is kind of weird (yet probably means nothing) that the 4 worst xPT seasons are 2020-2023. From 2015-2019 NYCFC was mildly to very lucky. From 2020 to now, it flipped. Here is the same table showing cumulative figures not adjusted per game.
View attachment 12966

That 2019 Torrent/Heber team was good, but not as good as it seemed. Among other things it benefitted from an insane finishing rate by Heber (and others). Vieira’s 2017 team was probably a lot better than his 2016 team, even though they were just 3 points apart. Honestly, all of this tracks to me, including that the 2021 team was much better than its second half slump made it seem. It was probably NYCFC’s best team. It had the highest xPts in 2021, more than New England even. That team deserved to win and it was no surprise when it did. And these numbers are a good part of the reason my position on Delia Out was a firm “NO” but for Cushing Out I’m a firm ”Maybe.” 2021 NYCFC was a good, well run team with bad luck. 2023 is a bad roster with a weak offense I think could be better, which also has had bad luck.
But the team also showed a much improved offense against Minnesota even though the goals did not come. If that continues, regardless of results, don’t be shocked if certain people keep their jobs.
And overall, NYCFC has a slightly positive Pts over xPts balance. The actual Goal Differential is about 22 goals better than xG differential, and that is mostly due to offense. NYC has over time significantly scored more than one would expect. Plus, from 2015 to now, NYCFC has scored more goals than any team in MLS, with an 18 goal gap to second (Philly). To emphasize, yes this include both 2015 and 2023: the most goals in MLS by a lot. If you wonder why I repeatedly jump on complaints about bad finishing, or when someone in chat says the team should have scored 3 goals in the first half if it was remotely clinical, this is why. NYCFC almost always scored more than you can reasonably expect And if you think otherwise your expectations are unreasonable. How much more than the rest of the league should NYCFC have Compared to what it already has?

But luck? NYCFC is close to even overall, and maybe due for a swing back to positive based off recent play.
I'm digressing from the problems of 2023, but if Taty and Ronny didn't leave midway through 2022, what could have been...1H 2022 was the best performance of any NYCFC team, including the semifinals of CCL losing 4-2 on aggregate. The first five games were tough because of the CCL schedule (1W, 1T, 3L), but after that fifth game on April 2 to the last game in July (30th), we only lost once (2-1 to Philly on the road) and had a six game DUDE Wipes clean sheet streak.
 

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Great analysis mgarbowski mgarbowski - in terms of underperforming by 9-10 points, I can easily think of a few results (underperformance, keeper stands on his head, bad timing) where you change those moments and they would be right there.

Games where they underperformed/lost key moments and pts lost:
-goal given up 90+ to tie ATL (2)
-home vs the Revs, Petrovic’d to a tie (2)
-late goal given up to tie CLB (2)
-Dominating Charlotte, yet tie (2)
-last week’s Minny game, say they score once and get a draw (01)

There’s 9 points right there and I didn’t even have to think hard about it. I’m sure there are even more. 9-10 pts underperformance sounds about right.
 
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