2017 Roster Discussion

[ktdNYCFC]

Mata is capable of that, but he does like to dribble/attack more than the 1-touch pass. The right side of our defense has never shown movement like that before, typically wanting to hug the endline (predictable) or dribble into the center (holding too long).

Agreed, which is why it's so frustrating that we're an "out of the back team" but we never execute it like that. I just hope it's not a result of instruction. I can't imagine PV tells them "just get the ball to Pirlo, he'll pass it to Jack, who will run at them with a bunch of fakes and stepovers and hopefully get Villa something to finish." Because that's what it looks like so far.

 

[Ulrich]

Agreed, which is why it's so frustrating that we're an "out of the back team" but we never execute it like that. I just hope it's not a result of instruction. I can't imagine PV tells them "just get the ball to Pirlo, he'll pass it to Jack, who will run at them with a bunch of fakes and stepovers and hopefully get Villa something to finish." Because that's what it looks like so far.

Agreed. I doubt Chicago can play like that all game because when players orbit their triangles non-stop, it's terribly taxing, but it also constantly pulls the defense out of position and opens up new passing lanes. If we could mix it up with both our normal breakout and the highly erratic orbiting/shifting, then we'd be able to break down teams on a regular basis. That sort of movement kills a tight press because the next pass is always into space behind the advancing defender.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Not sure where this would fit best, so I'll link it to the roster discussion by noting that this is how (I'm assuming) PV wants our roster to play . Couldn't get the video to link for some reason, but if you click the link in the tweet, it will pull up the vid.

(Edit: nvm, it works on my phone, just not on my work laptop for some reason)

https://twitter.com/x/status/833479545663606784

Obviously they are playing Miami, but holy hell it would be nice to see us play like that... confidence, triangles, short pinpoint passing... from goalkeeper to back of net. And Chicago isn't the one team in the league who has made it very publicly clear that they intend to always play out of the back no matter what. That would be us.

Excellent goal. But that defending looks like Poku taught them the City Way executed at the Poku effort.

 

[Tyler Connley]

Jeez, can we let these guys play a game in this league before declaring our opinions on them?

No

 

[EganSoccerWords]

TFC literally just signed a guy who is better than moralez as a tam player

He's not.

 

[Tyler Connley]

S

He's not.

stop...

 

[dannd23]

TFC literally just signed a guy who is better than moralez as a tam player

1) not better than Moralez
2) he's played a total of 10 minutes of first team football going back to July.
3) can you just lurk or something for a few months?

 

[gbservis]

Not sure where this would fit best, so I'll link it to the roster discussion by noting that this is how (I'm assuming) PV wants our roster to play . Couldn't get the video to link for some reason, but if you click the link in the tweet, it will pull up the vid.

(Edit: nvm, it works on my phone, just not on my work laptop for some reason)

https://twitter.com/x/status/833479545663606784

Obviously they are playing Miami, but holy hell it would be nice to see us play like that... confidence, triangles, short pinpoint passing... from goalkeeper to back of net. And Chicago isn't the one team in the league who has made it very publicly clear that they intend to always play out of the back no matter what. That would be us.

Based on the score from the TFC and Chicago fire friendlies against Miami I'm pretty sure any MLS team could do that against them.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

S

stop...

no

 

[EganSoccerWords]

I don't want to get the Awuah thread off topic, so I will post this here.

So of this will depend on salaries which we don't know yet. But I just would like to point out that both Sean Okoli and Ethan White are listed as Homegrown Players on the MLS website which may mean that they can be off budget players. If that is the case, White is more palatable and the Okoli signing is even better. Here is the list: http://www.mlssoccer.com/glossary/homegrown-player

Senior Roster

1. RJ Allen
2. Frederic Brillant
3. Alexander Callens
4. Miguel Camargo
5. Maxime Chanot
6. Mix Diskerud
7. Yangel Herrera
8. Eirik Johansen
9. Sean Johnson
10. Ronald Matarrita
11. Thomas McNamara
12. Maxi Moralez
13. Andrea Pirlo
14. Alexander Ring
15. Khiry Shelton
16. David Villa
17. Rodney Wallace
18. Stertzer
19. Gomez
20. Awuah

Supplement Roster (Off Budget, GA or making Senior Min)

21. Jack Harrison (GA)
22. Jonathan Lewis (GA)
23. Sean Okoli (HGP)?
24. Rawls?

Reserve Roster (Under 24k, Making Reserve Min.)

25. Brown?
26. Wingate?
27.
28.

Homegrown Slots

29. Sands?
30. Ethan White (HGP)?

Supplemental Roster Exceptions

· Jefferson Mena (Loan Exception)
· Mikey Lopez (Injury List)

 

[LionNYC]

I don't want to get the Awuah thread off topic, so I will post this here.

So of this will depend on salaries which we don't know yet. But I just would like to point out that both Sean Okoli and Ethan White are listed as Homegrown Players on the MLS website which may mean that they can be off budget players. If that is the case, White is more palatable and the Okoli signing is even better. Here is the list: http://www.mlssoccer.com/glossary/homegrown-player

Senior Roster

1. RJ Allen
2. Frederic Brillant
3. Alexander Callens
4. Miguel Camargo
5. Maxime Chanot
6. Mix Diskerud
7. Yangel Herrera
8. Eirik Johansen
9. Sean Johnson
10. Ronald Matarrita
11. Thomas McNamara
12. Maxi Moralez
13. Andrea Pirlo
14. Alexander Ring
15. Khiry Shelton
16. David Villa
17. Rodney Wallace
18. Stertzer
19. Gomez
20. Awuah

Supplement Roster (Off Budget, GA or making Senior Min)

21. Jack Harrison (GA)
22. Jonathan Lewis (GA)
23. Sean Okoli (HGP)?
24. Rawls?

Reserve Roster (Under 24k, Making Reserve Min.)

25. Brown?
26. Wingate?
27.
28.

Homegrown Slots

29. Sands?
30. Ethan White (HGP)?

Supplemental Roster Exceptions

· Jefferson Mena (Loan Exception)
· Mikey Lopez (Injury List)

So, are you telling me that Ethan White was NYCFC's first historic homegrown player?

God damn it.

 

[Ulrich]

So, are you telling me that Ethan White was NYCFC's first historic homegrown player?

God damn it.

If he is a HGP then there are some crazy fine print rules because he was tapped up by D.C. for the 2011 season. Played a few years for them and Philly with two different loan spells before coming to NYCFC. It's now 2017, so that'd be a 7 year contract if he still holds the designation.

I could see the fine print saying a HGP won't get screwed out of a job (guaranteed contract) for x-number of years since they took the chance of signing and giving up college. At any rate, if he is cap friendly, he's a generic HGP and not a specific NYCFC HG. That distinction will likely be Sands'.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

If he is a HGP then there are some crazy fine print rules because he was tapped up by D.C. for the 2011 season. Played a few years for them and Philly with two different loan spells before coming to NYCFC. It's now 2017, so that'd be a 7 year contract if he still holds the designation.

I could see the fine print saying a HGP won't get screwed out of a job (guaranteed contract) for x-number of years since they took the chance of signing and giving up college. At any rate, if he is cap friendly, he's a generic HGP and not a specific NYCFC HG. That distinction will likely be Sands'.

So the rules say: Homegrown Player(s) on either the Supplemental Roster or the Reserve Roster may earn (including achievable bonuses) in aggregate each year up to $125,000 above the Reserve Minimum Salary ($51,500 in 2016) or the Senior Minimum Salary ($62,500 in 2016).

I think that it could be interpreted as a player counts as a HGP until they make over the 175k-180k. But who knows for sure.

 

[ManhattanValley]

So, are you telling me that Ethan White was NYCFC's first historic homegrown player?

God damn it.

Does HGP stand for homegrown photographer?

 

[adam]

Didn't we deal with Norris' HG status in a thread last season. We concluded the HG expired when he switched teams. Not sure how we got to that conclusion. There could have been some things pulled out of asses, but who knows.

And then I did the research. And saw I did the research back then. Post-modern researching if you will. http://nycfcforums.com/index.php?threads/summer-transfer-window.4489/page-7#post-151127

Ulrich then shot me down saying that once the HG leaves the nest, no more HG status. A year later he's still trying to explain away the designation with some added explanation.

The fact is HG on the senior roster count as $150k vs the cap based on my previous research. Norris only counts as $62,500 as of last year. Therefore, he lost his HG designation somewhere along the way. Case closed and that's the last I'll ever speak of the situation. If someone brings it up again next year (god I hope he's still not on our roster) they can figure it out themselves.

 

[NickA]

TFC literally just signed a guy who is better than moralez as a tam player

Better at what? He's a totally different player. Maxi brings speed and width to the pitch. Vazquez isn't a box to box guy. He may work in a 3-5-2 but in a 4-3-3 he'd be a disaster.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Didn't we deal with Norris' HG status in a thread last season. We concluded the HG expired when he switched teams. Not sure how we got to that conclusion. There could have been some things pulled out of asses, but who knows.

And then I did the research. And saw I did the research back then. Post-modern researching if you will. http://nycfcforums.com/index.php?threads/summer-transfer-window.4489/page-7#post-151127

Ulrich then shot me down saying that once the HG leaves the nest, no more HG status. A year later he's still trying to explain away the designation with some added explanation.

The fact is HG on the senior roster count as $150k vs the cap based on my previous research. Norris only counts as $62,500 as of last year. Therefore, he lost his HG designation somewhere along the way. Case closed and that's the last I'll ever speak of the situation. If someone brings it up again next year (god I hope he's still not on our roster) they can figure it out themselves.

I don't really see the evidence that led you to that conclusion. There have been multiple instances of trading homegrown players and the receiving team keeping the homegrown rights as well. This January the Red Bulls traded Adam Najem to the Union and Philly gets to count him as homegrown despite being developed in the Red Bulls' academy.

 

[adam]

I don't really see the evidence that led you to that conclusion. There have been multiple instances of trading homegrown players and the receiving team keeping the homegrown rights as well. This January the Red Bulls traded Adam Najem to the Union and Philly gets to count him as homegrown despite being developed in the Red Bulls' academy.

My evidence is salary. The rule I quoted the last time it came up was HG players on the senior roster count as $150k. I'm thinking Norris' HG either expired by now or he voluntarily gave up the status to maintain a lower salary and stay in the league.

It was Ulrich who said that if you move teams the status goes.

 

[SayWhat44]

This is probably the most positive conversation we'll have regarding Norris. Usually it has to do with how horrendous he is. Next conversation will be whether he's actually on the roster. Not whether his salary counts.

 

[Ulrich]

My evidence is salary. The rule I quoted the last time it came up was HG players on the senior roster count as $150k. I'm thinking Norris' HG either expired by now or he voluntarily gave up the status to maintain a lower salary and stay in the league.

It was Ulrich who said that if you move teams the status goes.

If the status moves with a HG, then I got nothing.... those being severely undeveloped or underreported/non-clarified rules. The entire notion of HG is one that revolves around the originating team.