Guy was making TAM money and didnt play over 1000 minutes 2 out of his 4 years. 50k+600k in allocation dollars/cap room. This is a great move cap wise.
2022 Roster Discussion
- Thread starter Fantazma
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It would not surprise me to discover that Charlotte offered to select a different NYCFC player for GAM comparable to what they received from LAFC. Not sure what the MLS rules are, but deals like that are common in other expansion drafts. NYCFC may have decided Isi wasn’t worth the cap space and/or GAM cost.
Isi was not going to start next season. He provided a productive left foot off the bench - but it was from the bench. Why not roll the dice on a younger player that may improve? That equation may change if Taty/Medina/Isi are all gone - the team will need at least one “proven” attacker - but in a vacuum finding a Thiago-type to replace Isi has a higher ceiling.
My guess is that the reason NYCFC exposed guys like Tinnerholm, Amundsen, and Maxi is they know Tajouri-Shradi was going to be selected. And they were probably OK with it -- as good as he was for us, we tend to find solid attacking pieces and we have so many wingers/attackers, it won't be as hard to plug that hole as it would have been to plug other holes. He had a salary that, for what his production was going to be next year, we can do better with that money.
Jesus Medina 4 years 23 goals, 15 Assists, 6482 minutes
Ismael Tajouri-Shradi 4 years 26 goals 9 Assists, 4390 Minutes
Shradi's offensive production per minute is much higher, but he was never available enough to get more minutes than he did. In the end, offensively, they were close to the same player in raw production. Both were streaky. In 2021, both scored at a solid rate in the early part of this season when we had no offensive depth, then had much weaker second halves: 2 goals for Medina and 0 for Shradi.
The difference is after a lot of DNP time mostly under Torrent, Medina improved where he could - his fitness and work rate - and in the cup-winning season contributed regularly enough in other ways that he appeared in more games than any other NYCFC player. The first secret of success is showing up. Isi couldn't do that. He was hurt and missed the last 7 games of the season when the team finally turned itself around. It wasn't his fault, but it is what it was. I think it's crazy that the general consensus is good-riddance to Medina and losing Shradi is a tragedy. Both contributed, both were flawed.
Ismael Tajouri-Shradi 4 years 26 goals 9 Assists, 4390 Minutes
Shradi's offensive production per minute is much higher, but he was never available enough to get more minutes than he did. In the end, offensively, they were close to the same player in raw production. Both were streaky. In 2021, both scored at a solid rate in the early part of this season when we had no offensive depth, then had much weaker second halves: 2 goals for Medina and 0 for Shradi.
The difference is after a lot of DNP time mostly under Torrent, Medina improved where he could - his fitness and work rate - and in the cup-winning season contributed regularly enough in other ways that he appeared in more games than any other NYCFC player. The first secret of success is showing up. Isi couldn't do that. He was hurt and missed the last 7 games of the season when the team finally turned itself around. It wasn't his fault, but it is what it was. I think it's crazy that the general consensus is good-riddance to Medina and losing Shradi is a tragedy. Both contributed, both were flawed.
If Charlotte drafted Medina then sold him to Brazil or Europe the same day, I think the reaction to his departure would be different. He was an underperforming DP and the club chose to let him go.
I would be less annoyed if Charlotte drafted ISI and intended to use him to build their roster directly. The arbitrage angle is what irks me. I want that 400k GAM to defend our title.
I think you have to unfortunately look at the big number too, $$$. Medina was making DP money, Isi was making TAM money. The expectations were always higher on Medina. And I think history just treated Medina poorly and gave Isi an edge. Medina came in lauded as the next Jack Harrison and right after Jack left and when Medina came in he… wasn’t. Isi’s first three shots in general for this team were actual goals. I think those events really set the bar for everyone’s expectations. Obviously perspectives change a little over time but first impressions and expectations vs. reality dragged Medina down and dragged Isi up.
Love the psychology of this.
Medina's strength in defensive tenacity is more hidden. His DP status creates a higher expectation. His bad moments - e.g., 1v1 with the goalie and doesn't even get a shot off - are really memorable - severe availability bias on that.
Shradi, by contrast benefits from a first impression bias. He was so over the top good in his first 1/2 season with the team and in such spectacular fashion. I mean, I'd have to go back and look for the exact numbers but I want to say that at one point he had something like 8 goals on his first 10 shots with NYCFC. It was ridiculous. (BTW, even if my numbers are wildly off, they prove my point. A crazy good initial impression was formed and was very difficult to break thereafter.) Not only was the rate tremendous but many of the goals themselves were bangers, not your simple tap ins. OTOH, his bad moments - e.g., lax defense 40+ yards from goal that gives up a strong cross - aren't usually very memorable. Even talking about that play my brain latches on way more the fact that Callens put in the own goal than that Shradi could have played better D.
This contrast is custom built for a psychological preference for Shradi over Medina. The human brain is deeply fallible.
Medina definitely had DP expectation which he never met. And it was even worse. We decided that he was supposed to be our Almiron - a young South American who comes in and sets things on fire. He never did, not even close. But after 4 years I have to put that behind me. Ranking team DPs, in terms of all-in long term contribution to the team on the field, I'd put him behind behind only Villa and Maxi, and ahead of Pirlo, Lampard, and Mitrita, with Talles TBD. That says more about the club's DP failures than anything else, and again, a lot of Medina's placement here is just showing up.
Meanwhile, I've always been kind of fascinated about how the fans have never recalibrated on Shradi. They treat him as if he was always the guy who scored 11 goals in 18 appearances in 2018, but he never again really came close to doing that again, whether in terms of raw numbers, or efficiency, or anything.
ETA: just saw that while I was drafting this
FootyLovin posted on a very similar theme. He's right, so much of this is just weird brain stuff.
I think another component of this effect that you have really touched upon a lot this season (especially with regards to the Ronny out crowd) is the forum’s tendencies towards hive mind. I think when you hear a bunch of people parrot the same ideas it creates a confirmation bias. K Kjbert andMedina definitely had DP expectation which he never met. And it was even worse. We decided that he was supposed to be our Almiron - a young South American who comes in and sets things on fire. He never did, not even close. But after 4 years I have to put that behind me. Ranking team DPs, in terms of all-in long term contribution to the team on the field, I'd put him behind behind only Villa and Maxi, and ahead of Pirlo, Lampard, and Mitrita, with Talles TBD. That says more about the club's DP failures than anything else, and again, a lot of Medina's placement here is just showing up.
Meanwhile, I've always been kind of fascinated about how the fans have never recalibrated on Shradi. They treat him as if he was always the guy who scored 11 goals in 18 appearances in 2018, but he never again really came close to doing that again, whether in terms of raw numbers, or efficiency, or anything.
ETA: just saw that while I was drafting this
mgarbowski I think were definitely two members trying to talk up counter points to the hive mind at times this season with obvious frustrations.You make good points - I hated Medina but he brought things to the team that Shradi didn’t - team cohesion, defensive effort, playing within the team - but he also didn’t play with a lot of heart, seemingly had no bite in the tackle, didn’t perform at a level we would expect, and to me just wasn’t likeable.
Contrast that with Shradi who played with heart, cost less, scored some great goals and was just darn likeable.
I hate to say it but we may not have won this year without Medina who was arguably more valuable to the team. (Blech.)
Bottom line: I loved Shradi and sad to see him go but it’s no tragedy. I’m really glad to see Medina go and hopeful we’ll replace him with a high performing DP.
That all makes sense but I vehemently disagree with Medina not playing with a lot of heart. IMO, he was the second hardest worker on the team (behind Taty).
I say that but I am also glad to see Medina go, and the ability to fill that spot with a high performing DP.
West ham makes a lot of sense given how much they rely on Antonio and Moyes probably appreciates how hard working he is. Is he good enough to score regularly in the Premier League? Maybe, but a bottom half PL team seems a little more likely to me - can he get a work permit?
West Ham monitoring New York City striker Valentin Castellanos
The Argentine scored as New York City beat Portland Timbers on penalties to lift the MLS Cup last weekend, taking his tally for the season to 23 goals across all competitions.www.dailymail.co.uk
The DP tag outweighs everything else. If Median were a TAM player for the last 4 seasons we'd probably all feel differently about him. I wish him the best of luck wherever he ends up, but I'm thrilled to have him off our books. The talent level of young players we are bringing in at this point (Talles, Santi, Acevedo, Thiago) is different than 2017/2018.
If you watch the games, you know that Medina was a liability offensively. We already play with a double pivot. At times, we played with three #6s.
We’re not Burnley.
We’re not Burnley.
I guess I don’t think of covering lots of ground as necessarily playing with lots of heart - but fair point, although I wouldn’t have picked him as second hardest worker behind Taty. No one would accuse Maxi of not playing with heart -to help illustrate the point.
The theme to all of this is that the Expansion Draft is a legacy of a league that no longer exists and should be ended.
After we and Orlando came out flat in 2015, the league added extra GAM to the expansion teams. That and the advent of TAM made it possible for new teams to fill out a strong roster from the beginning. The expansion draft wasn't a factor at all. The league cut it back after 2015, but they should have just ended it.
I am sure that Charlotte went around contacting teams and offering their draft picks to the highest bidder. It's not like LAFC saw that Charlotte had picked Shradi and suddenly made an offer. Charlotte went to LAFC and many other teams and said - is there someone we could pick for you, and if so, how much will you give us?
Meanwhile, players are yanked away from teams that value their services and where they have homes. Better to give Charlotte the $250K in GAM that was doled out to the losers in the Expansion Draft than bother with the draft itself.
After we and Orlando came out flat in 2015, the league added extra GAM to the expansion teams. That and the advent of TAM made it possible for new teams to fill out a strong roster from the beginning. The expansion draft wasn't a factor at all. The league cut it back after 2015, but they should have just ended it.
I am sure that Charlotte went around contacting teams and offering their draft picks to the highest bidder. It's not like LAFC saw that Charlotte had picked Shradi and suddenly made an offer. Charlotte went to LAFC and many other teams and said - is there someone we could pick for you, and if so, how much will you give us?
Meanwhile, players are yanked away from teams that value their services and where they have homes. Better to give Charlotte the $250K in GAM that was doled out to the losers in the Expansion Draft than bother with the draft itself.
...From every other team's perspective. From Charlotte's perspective, they just got $400K in GAM + whatever they got for blackman
As far as Isi is concerned, I am confident we can go spend $668K* and find someone who is as good as he is. He was a solid backup, no better. Not a complete player, and not consistent enough.
As for Medina - he wasn't earning his keep as a DP, and looked lost his first two seasons. I give him credit. He remade his game and his body to be the best player he can. I don't think he is fast enough or technical enough to be an elite offensive player. He hadn't been tough enough either, but he is one of our toughest players now. He also puts in the work on defense. He's a solid player, but he was not in the same ballpark as Almiron.** We should be able to replace him for the $1,050,000 base salary alone, much less the full DP tag.
The only caveat to all of this is that we've lost two left footed wingers. That complicates replacements, but it should not be impossible.
===
* - Shradi was on $618K of salary, plus the $50K of GAM we received for him.
** - Atlanta purchased Almiron for $8 million just as he was turning 23. We purchased Medina for $4 million just as he was turning 21.
As for Medina - he wasn't earning his keep as a DP, and looked lost his first two seasons. I give him credit. He remade his game and his body to be the best player he can. I don't think he is fast enough or technical enough to be an elite offensive player. He hadn't been tough enough either, but he is one of our toughest players now. He also puts in the work on defense. He's a solid player, but he was not in the same ballpark as Almiron.** We should be able to replace him for the $1,050,000 base salary alone, much less the full DP tag.
The only caveat to all of this is that we've lost two left footed wingers. That complicates replacements, but it should not be impossible.
===
* - Shradi was on $618K of salary, plus the $50K of GAM we received for him.
** - Atlanta purchased Almiron for $8 million just as he was turning 23. We purchased Medina for $4 million just as he was turning 21.
NYCFC 2022 DEPTH CHART
Striker: Heber, Castellanos
Wing: Magno, Jasson,Tajouri-Shradi, Thaigo, Rodriguez, Mitrita*
Wing/CAM: Moralez,Medina
CM: Parks, Sands, Morales, Acevedo,Rocha, Zelalem, Torres, Haak
RB: Tinnerholm, Gray
LB:Thorarinsson, Amundsen, Gloster, McFarlane
CB: Chanot, Callens, Latinovich
GK: Johnson, Barraza, Mizell
* - On loan.
Striker: Heber, Castellanos
Wing: Magno, Jasson,
Wing/CAM: Moralez,
CM: Parks, Sands, Morales, Acevedo,
RB: Tinnerholm, Gray
LB:
CB: Chanot, Callens, Latinovich
GK: Johnson, Barraza, Mizell
* - On loan.
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