2021 Roster Discussion

[moogoo]

A great roster? I really need people to lay out in some kind of detail how this roster is “great” or is a”Formula 1 Race car”. I am not convinced that this team is anything more than good and if you look at the last 12 games I’m not sure they are even that good.

defense - When played together, callens and chanot are a solid CB pairing. with Sands in the middle, they are one of the best 3 man backline in the league. Tinnerholm is a top 5 right back (usually). Gudi has been decent at left. Our backline is pretty good and is probably top 5 in the league. our weakness here, is our lack of backups. amundsen is not a good 2nd choice. started out great, but has since become a liability more than anything. should gloster be playing? I think so, but apparently ronny doesn't. We also don't have a solid CB backup.. losing ibby wasn't a good idea but the club would rather be nice than smart. Gray as a backup rb is solid, I think.

midfield - maxi, when on, is fantastic. parks has been pretty consistent. sands, when he plays in the midfield and is his usual self, is great. santi is a quality player. zalalem would probably be solid if he got more minutes to actually get some rhythm. our weaknesses here is that we don't have a true #6, field covering, destroyer. Morales sucks but ronny keeps playing him. Acevedo is super slow and immobile and Ronny keeps playing him against high press teams with crowded midfields. That's on Ronny. Rocha is a serviceable backup.

forward - we are pretty stacked. We just can't finish. Our weakest attacking option is probably medina and having so many forwards, ronny rotates and everyone is rusty so they are sloppy and not fit.

We have a quality roster. F1 quality? nah. But it is definitely good enough to convincingly be top 5 in the SS table.

 

[Shwafta]

pretty sure talles is a DP (taking mitri's spot). so at best, we have 2 DP spots with maxi leaving and a medina buyout.

We definitely need CB bolstering. We need better midfield bolstering. We have a lot of midfielders on the roster now, but morales is bad and acevedo is super inconsistent.. and super slow. We are missing a true destroyer type midfielder who can cover a LOT of ground and break up plays. Sands CAN play that role, but he's still not a destroyer like Ring was.

All that being said, this roster is still a great roster. Ronny's inability to use the players he has in a proper formation with a proper strategy is what sticks out as the problem, to me.

Just looked it up, you're right. Magno is a YDP, I didn't realize that counted towards DP for some reason.

That being said, the roster is good for this season. Not next season. Chanot is getting up there in age. Maxi is gone. That's two of our core roster. We need that midfield presence as you mentioned. I want to see someone start asking the club about this so we see if they even have a plan for solving this problem. Rodriguez is good and all but I'd like an experienced midfielder come in.

 

[SoupInNYC]

forward - we are pretty stacked. We just can't finish. Our weakest attacking option is probably medina and having so many forwards, ronny rotates and everyone is rusty so they are sloppy and not fit.

We’re definitely stacked in that we have Taty. But it seems like we are continually overrating guys like Tajouri-Shradi and Thiago.

What is Tajouri-Shradi good at? Taking guys on 1v1 and taking shots with his left foot. Not much else. And even then, he’s really not great when starting and cannot make any passes with his right foot that limits his ability to find runs but also allows defenders to defend him better.

Thiago, I think the goals against DC and Columbus shortly after he joined are vastly clouding our judgment on him. What has he done since then other than take heavy touches that lead to turnovers? Not every opponent we face are going to allow him acres of space to run into since that’s currently the one thing he’s good at. I think the guy could still turn into a wonderful winger, but I still see too much Khiry Shelton in him lately.

 

[SoupInNYC]

zalalem would probably be solid if he got more minutes to actually get some rhythm.

and having so many forwards, ronny rotates and everyone is rusty so they are sloppy and not fit.

Also, I don’t quite see how these two statements reconcile with each other

 

[Antidote P. Smiley]

defense - When played together, callens and chanot are a solid CB pairing. with Sands in the middle, they are one of the best 3 man backline in the league. Tinnerholm is a top 5 right back (usually). Gudi has been decent at left. Our backline is pretty good and is probably top 5 in the league. our weakness here, is our lack of backups. amundsen is not a good 2nd choice. started out great, but has since become a liability more than anything. should gloster be playing? I think so, but apparently ronny doesn't. We also don't have a solid CB backup.. losing ibby wasn't a good idea but the club would rather be nice than smart. Gray as a backup rb is solid, I think.

midfield - maxi, when on, is fantastic. parks has been pretty consistent. sands, when he plays in the midfield and is his usual self, is great. santi is a quality player. zalalem would probably be solid if he got more minutes to actually get some rhythm. our weaknesses here is that we don't have a true #6, field covering, destroyer. Morales sucks but ronny keeps playing him. Acevedo is super slow and immobile and Ronny keeps playing him against high press teams with crowded midfields. That's on Ronny. Rocha is a serviceable backup.

forward - we are pretty stacked. We just can't finish. Our weakest attacking option is probably medina and having so many forwards, ronny rotates and everyone is rusty so they are sloppy and not fit.

We have a quality roster. F1 quality? nah. But it is definitely good enough to convincingly be top 5 in the SS table.

Unfortunately, I think team has been highly overrated this season.
It’s inconceivable to me that a top 5 SS team goes 1-3-2 against 4 teams at the bottom of the table in a span of two months.

Chanot amd Callens: look great at times but at least one of them is gaffe prone.

Tinnerholm: in my opinion, has dropped off significantly from last year when everyone was saying he was good at soccer.

SJ: used to keep us in games with inspiring saves. That is not happening as much this season. In fact, one could argue he’s let a few too many in that he shouldn’t have.

Sands: Something is off now. Tired? We need a full season of his best.

Gudi: Better than I used to think.

Morales: More bad than good.

Cacha: Good and not so good.

Parks: Stock is up.

Moralez: Mostly good. Age is probably an issue.

Rodriguez: Looks good.

Thiago. Probably better than JLew?

ITS: Stock is down.

Medina: Enigma

Magno: who knows…but nothing to get hot and bothered about yet.

Taty: probably thinking about a new team cause he’s pretty darn good.

Maybe this team beats, Nashville,Atlanta, D..C and Philly… heck, maybe they go undefeated the rest of the season and I’ll eat my hat.
I don’t see how we can overlook 1 win 3 draws and 2 loses against bottom 4. That one win was also by the skin of their teeth.

 

[Antidote P. Smiley]

BREAKING NEWS
After defeating NYCFC the Fire fire head coach Raphael Wicky. Raphael was heard saying, “But I just defeated the great NYCFC! They are a top 5 supporter shield contender. We can compete with the elite and win.”

 

[mgarbowski]

We’re definitely stacked in that we have Taty. But it seems like we are continually overrating guys like Tajouri-Shradi and Thiago.

What is Tajouri-Shradi good at? Taking guys on 1v1 and taking shots with his left foot. Not much else. And even then, he’s really not great when starting and cannot make any passes with his right foot that limits his ability to find runs but also allows defenders to defend him better.

Thiago, I think the goals against DC and Columbus shortly after he joined are vastly clouding our judgment on him. What has he done since then other than take heavy touches that lead to turnovers? Not every opponent we face are going to allow him acres of space to run into since that’s currently the one thing he’s good at. I think the guy could still turn into a wonderful winger, but I still see too much Khiry Shelton in him lately.

Our summer additions have done very little to help the team. I agree with your analysis of Thiago. Magno was hurt and I'm still not sure of his quality. Santi appears to be the most capable. Honestly I'm not certain why he has played >60 minutes just 4 times. I also never believed Heber would contribute significantly this year, and so far my expectations have been met.

It's been such a weird season. The team played well above expectations for roughly the first half while mostly undermanned, and its results in that time were solid but really should have been better given their quality of play and goal differential. Since adding the new pieces, it's been a mostly steady decline in quality: conceding more chances and goals, scoring much less. Once the 25 game streak of never being held scoreless ended, they've been shut out every third game on average. The gap between results and stats is mostly gone - we're just not that good now.

I think we added more player pieces this summer than any season since 2015, and just like that year, our performance got worse after the new players arrived. The worst second half drop off was 2018 when we had a midseason coaching change, and finished the final 13 games of the season with 1.0 ppg after having 2.05 over the first 21.

I'm not sure it's cause and effect, but I think it needs to be considered.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Our summer additions have done very little to help the team. I agree with your analysis of Thiago. Magno was hurt and I'm still not sure of his quality. Santi appears to be the most capable. Honestly I'm not certain why he has played >60 minutes just 4 times. I also never believed Heber would contribute significantly this year, and so far my expectations have been met.

It's been such a weird season. The team played well above expectations for roughly the first half while mostly undermanned, and its results in that time were solid but really should have been better given their quality of play and goal differential. Since adding the new pieces, it's been a mostly steady decline in quality: conceding more chances and goals, scoring much less. Once the 25 game streak of never being held scoreless ended, they've been shut out every third game on average. The gap between results and stats is mostly gone - we're just not that good now.

I think we added more player pieces this summer than any season since 2015, and just like that year, our performance got worse after the new players arrived. The worst second half drop off was 2018 when we had a midseason coaching change, and finished the final 13 games of the season with 1.0 ppg after having 2.05 over the first 21.

I'm not sure it's cause and effect, but I think it needs to be considered.

Santi is definitely our most "ready-now" new addition and should be our starting LW assuming he's fully fit. I think I understand the lesser minutes the last two games as he's returning from injury, but he definitely needs to play more.

Thiago and Talles are nothing more than subs who can hopefully contribute positively in a game when subbed on. I am very excited for their future next year and on however.

Those two kind of fit into this, but also along with Medina and Jasson, but I think one of this team's biggest issues is who is our RW? My default is Medina because of his defense and corner delivery, but then sub him off around 60' for Tajouri-Shradi or Thiago. The problem with Medina is his passing is atrocious and although his movement is pretty good, he often gets dispossessed way too easily once he receives the ball.

This may be a crazy idea, but I may want to try Tinnerholm at RW and fill in with Gray at RB. Tinnerholm is probably one of our more two-footed players which is kinda crazy for a fullback and he provides more offensively than defensively. I may be overthinking this and now interjecting a fullback into a winger position where we supposedly have depth, but I'm having trouble seeing where the quality of that depth is.

 

[Marito]

The way I see it, 2 players are stock up this year: Parks and Taty. Both among the very best in the league at their respective positions, and both consistent. Sands has had such an eventful year that it is not surprise he may be overwhelmed and exhausted. The silver lining is that he might stay another year if he falls off the USMNT picture. Everybody else is stock down. Callens, and Tinnerholm are still pretty good IMHO, even if they haven´t performed to their usual standard, and Callens in particular is our fastest CB and the most trustworthy 1v1 defender in the back. His gaffes are usually only with crosses, and that´s common to our entire back line. I have no idea if Santi is Maxi´s heir apparent, but I´m not sold on him, and if he cannot fill those shoes it is going to be a painful transition. In sum, our core is thinner than we thought, and both vets (Medina, Isi, etc) and newer guys we expected more of (Acevedo in particular) don´t look the part.

 

[moogoo]

We’re definitely stacked in that we have Taty. But it seems like we are continually overrating guys like Tajouri-Shradi and Thiago.

What is Tajouri-Shradi good at? Taking guys on 1v1 and taking shots with his left foot. Not much else. And even then, he’s really not great when starting and cannot make any passes with his right foot that limits his ability to find runs but also allows defenders to defend him better.

Thiago, I think the goals against DC and Columbus shortly after he joined are vastly clouding our judgment on him. What has he done since then other than take heavy touches that lead to turnovers? Not every opponent we face are going to allow him acres of space to run into since that’s currently the one thing he’s good at. I think the guy could still turn into a wonderful winger, but I still see too much Khiry Shelton in him lately.

in retrospect and consideration of yours and others' posts, my use of "stacked" was probably from behind rose colored glasses.

But, I think on the whole, our attacking options are better than most in the league when they are performing to their potential. As you and others have pointed out, I think a lot of our guys all over the field have underperformed their potential and that's become a bit more apparent in the last month or so. I have hopes things can turn around at the right time.

Isi isn't great at a lot of things but he is valuable as one of our few 1v1 players, has a great shot, delivers good corners and free kicks from the right. He works fairly well with Anton too. I think he's performed at about the same level he always has... maybe a bit less.

I agree with your assessment of Thiago. I think he's got a ton of potential though and it's just a matter of whether he wants to improve or not. I think he's still a bit immature in the way Taty was when he first arrived. We weren't very high on Taty either at the time, but he put in the work and it has been paying off. I think the same can be true with Thiago. Only time will tell.

Talles - I think he just needs more time, especially on the field.

Heber - I think we know what he's capable of. We just have to see if he'll rise to that level again.

Also, I don’t quite see how these two statements reconcile with each other

What I meant was I don't think we have a lot of consistency in the attacking lineup aside from Taty. Of course, this has a lot to do with congestion rotation. But at the same time, it doesn't really seem like Ronny rotates with any real plan in mind. By the time Thiago or Isi get on the field, they've already built up some rust from not getting more actual game minutes. Or maybe they just aren't very good and my giving them the benefit of the doubt is clouding my view. *shrug*

 

[SoupInNYC]

Isi isn't great at a lot of things but he is valuable as one of our few 1v1 players, has a great shot, delivers good corners and free kicks from the right.

Isi is very very not good at delivering corners. I have yet to chart the corners from the last 3 games, though Isi is behind both Maxi and Medina in terms of being chosen as a kick taker so it's likely he didn't take any, or at least many. So far this season he has taken 5 corners, 2 were easily grabbed on the fly by the keeper and the other 3 were too low that they were cleared away by the defender on the initial cross.

He is decent at taking direct FKs.

 

[SoupInNYC]

What I meant was I don't think we have a lot of consistency in the attacking lineup aside from Taty. Of course, this has a lot to do with congestion rotation. But at the same time, it doesn't really seem like Ronny rotates with any real plan in mind. By the time Thiago or Isi get on the field, they've already built up some rust from not getting more actual game minutes. Or maybe they just aren't very good and my giving them the benefit of the doubt is clouding my view. *shrug*

My comment was more that it seemed you were suggesting the rotation was causing our forwards to be rusty, but you were also suggesting we should include more rotation in the midfield to get Zelalem more playing time, because his lack of playing time was causing him to not be completely in rhythm.

 

[moogoo]

Isi is very very not good at delivering corners. I have yet to chart the corners from the last 3 games, though Isi is behind both Maxi and Medina in terms of being chosen as a kick taker so it's likely he didn't take any, or at least many. So far this season he has taken 5 corners, 2 were easily grabbed on the fly by the keeper and the other 3 were too low that they were cleared away by the defender on the initial cross.

He is decent at taking direct FKs.

The reason I think he takes good corners is because I particularly like that he drives the ball into the box rather than a lofted ball. Yea, sometimes they are too low and get picked off and sometimes they are too close to the keeper. But I think that happens to all our takers on some level. But he isn't our regular corner taker when he's on the field, so I suppose there's a reason for that.

 

[moogoo]

My comment was more that it seemed you were suggesting the rotation was causing our forwards to be rusty, but you were also suggesting we should include more rotation in the midfield to get Zelalem more playing time, because his lack of playing time was causing him to not be completely in rhythm.

I see. Those were meant to be two separate thoughts.

I do think Zelalem should get more minutes to see what he can do if we aren't playing parks and sands together, especially over Morales (can we agree he's terrible no matter where he plays?).

 

[Kjbert]

We haven’t replaced Ring or Matarrita or Mitrita

Gudi and Amundsen can’t sniff Matarrita

Morales is a shell of the player he once was and he and Acevedo lack the pace and strength of Ring

Matrita was inconsistent but stone cold from free kicks and he forced the defense to scheme for him

We got cute in the off-season and were worse now

 

[Shwafta]

I've said this many times before, but I'll say it again and re-open this discussion.
I think Taty as a lone striker doesn't work. He has great hold up play and he can score sometimes, but that's not what he should be. Remember that Taty/Heber synergy period? That's how I think Taty needs to be used. Feeding a clinical and instinctive player. His hold up play is excellent and that's what he should be - a target man.


[ Shwafta's terrible tactics talk ]

I think we should try the following formation, especially now with tinnerholm out:

Callens - Sands - Chanot
Parks - Acevedo
Medina - Maxi - Thiago
Taty - Heber

3 - 5 -2.

Swap Heber for Thiago or Magno (i guess bc we have no one else atm?) and have Taty feeding into that guy.

If we bring in some strikers, this is a viable system imo. Might cause some defensive problems too, but it's not like we haven't experimented with 3 at the back before.

 

[mgarbowski]

Ten players who will define the Audi 2021 MLS Cup Playoffs race | MLSSoccer.com

Every time the weather turns nippy, the stakes raise with every game and certain players emerge (for better or worse) as pivotal to important outcomes. This is our usual attempt to pick out the guys who will have an outsized say in how the tables stand when the final Decision

www.mlssoccer.com

No NYCFC players on the list, which I think makes sense. As I opened the article I tried to think who I would include and had no good candidates. At this point we're beyond the idea that NYCFC goes as Taty goes. He has 7 of the club's last 12 goals in a stretch when the club is doing poorly. He is clearly the team's most productive all-round offensive player, but it's been proven the team can fail while he plays well.

No other player stands out. We need someone else to step up, especially by scoring, but it's very hard to say who: Thiago, Magno, Santi, Medina, Shradi? All could, none seem especially more likely than another. Heber would be a shock. Maxi? His stock is trending down again IMO, though I also don't assign him primary blame for the current run. Still, in 2019 he had 33% of the club's assists. This year he has 25%. But that's really an all-year trend I think.

Anyone have a thought as to who is most likely to step up their game in the stretch?

 

[moogoo]

Ten players who will define the Audi 2021 MLS Cup Playoffs race | MLSSoccer.com

Every time the weather turns nippy, the stakes raise with every game and certain players emerge (for better or worse) as pivotal to important outcomes. This is our usual attempt to pick out the guys who will have an outsized say in how the tables stand when the final Decision

www.mlssoccer.com

No NYCFC players on the list, which I think makes sense. As I opened the article I tried to think who I would include and had no good candidates. At this point we're beyond the idea that NYCFC goes as Taty goes. He has 7 of the club's last 12 goals in a stretch when the club is doing poorly. He is clearly the team's most productive all-round offensive player, but it's been proven the team can fail while he plays well.

No other player stands out. We need someone else to step up, especially by scoring, but it's very hard to say who: Thiago, Magno, Santi, Medina, Shradi? All could, none seem especially more likely than another. Heber would be a shock. Maxi? His stock is trending down again IMO, though I also don't assign him primary blame for the current run. Still, in 2019 he had 33% of the club's assists. This year he has 25%. But that's really an all-year trend I think.

Anyone have a thought as to who is most likely to step up their game in the stretch?

My first thought would probably be Parks. Our attackers could potentially get very hot, but none of them are truly good enough to create something out of nothing. So, they need service. As you said, Maxi is trending down and hasn't been all that great or consistent this year. Parks has been fairly consistent with a few flubs here and there in games, as usual. But on the whole, I think he's been having a pretty stellar season and had Maxi been better this year and Sands more consistently playing at the #6, I think our season would be looking much different.

If Parks raises his level even more to not only create chances with his passing for one or more attackers (hopefully) getting hot at the right moment, get us out of trouble with his ball retention and movement, and add some goals, it could change our post season dramatically.

 

[FootyLovin]

Anyone have a thought as to who is most likely to step up their game in the stretch?

HOT TAKE: Thor. With Anton going down Deila sends far more of our attack down the left side. Thor is pushed to be more and more involved. More touches. More crosses. Even more shots and a surprising 2-3 goals down the stretch. He isn't the main driver of success. But due to circumstances, he steps up his game significantly, from the moments of class we've seen to a more consistent contributor. Hot take out.

 

[LionNYC]

HOT TAKE: Thor. With Anton going down Deila sends far more of our attack down the left side. Thor is pushed to be more and more involved. More touches. More crosses. Even more shots and a surprising 2-3 goals down the stretch. He isn't the main driver of success. But due to circumstances, he steps up his game significantly, from the moments of class we've seen to a more consistent contributor. Hot take out.

What about defending the left side? Wouldn't we be more exposed?