2022 Roster Discussion

[SoupInNYC]

Yesterday was crazy busy at work so I got up too early this morning to read through this thread and wanted to touch on a few points brought up, but I just don't have it in me to click through the previous pages to go quote the posts that brought up these thoughts:

• I am also concerned about Heber with this team and perhaps it is injury related, but maybe not. Maybe he's just not a striker that fits in with what Ronny wants to do. Taty is a lead the line type of striker who is always going to get in behind, but is also very strong in his hold up play. Heber is almost a false 9 who will drop back, but not to hold up, moreso to help create and spread the ball around and then his movement is within the box finding space instead of attacking/creating space like Taty does. Hopefully I'm wrong on this.
• I still think there's maybe a chance Taty isn't gone until the summer. That's usually when the bigger transfers in the European leagues happen, right? There's definitely a lot of risk to waiting that long though, so not sure we do wait that long. In an ideal scenario, that would happen so as to give us striker coverage for half the year and allow him to mentor Talles for a little bit longer.
• Gudi being let go is definitely very surprising. We now have no direct free kick threat on this team. Maxi has never been a direct free kick threat and I guess Isi kind of could be, but he's not going to get enough minutes to be a real threat there. Maybe this move is mostly because the team likes what they had in Gloster. Thinking back, I thought he's looked decent in his few cameos, but just not quite enough sample size yet.
• Would love it if Haak became our next Tony Rocha. That's a great shout for whoever mentioned that (sorry again, I'm just not going to go back clicking through 7 pages to credit)
• The re-signing of Acevedo. I think he still has quite a bit to learn, but this guy is going to be our next big sale. I think he shows a ton of poise and promise in his progressive passing as well in his possession, but like several of you pointed out, he needs to learn how to be more physical on the ball to keep possession better when being challenged as well as being smarter in his challenges. Those last two things come with playing time. I'm very excited to see what he turns into.

 

[Higgs1]

People seem remarkably blasé about Tinny being left unprotected. I, personally, was very surprised.
Is it just that everyone thinks Charlotte is too stocked with defenders for him to be in real danger of leaving? As one of the top fullbacks in the league you'd think he'd be very desirable.

I think the overall mindset is that he's coming off a pretty serious injury, and while time timetable isn't certain, he won't be match fit for a full 90 minutes for a while, probably until mid season the earliest, so it's risky to take someone in that situation especially as a new team I would think.

 

[Jon]

Yesterday was crazy busy at work so I got up too early this morning to read through this thread and wanted to touch on a few points brought up, but I just don't have it in me to click through the previous pages to go quote the posts that brought up these thoughts:

• I am also concerned about Heber with this team and perhaps it is injury related, but maybe not. Maybe he's just not a striker that fits in with what Ronny wants to do. Taty is a lead the line type of striker who is always going to get in behind, but is also very strong in his hold up play. Heber is almost a false 9 who will drop back, but not to hold up, moreso to help create and spread the ball around and then his movement is within the box finding space instead of attacking/creating space like Taty does. Hopefully I'm wrong on this.
• I still think there's maybe a chance Taty isn't gone until the summer. That's usually when the bigger transfers in the European leagues happen, right? There's definitely a lot of risk to waiting that long though, so not sure we do wait that long. In an ideal scenario, that would happen so as to give us striker coverage for half the year and allow him to mentor Talles for a little bit longer.
• Gudi being let go is definitely very surprising. We now have no direct free kick threat on this team. Maxi has never been a direct free kick threat and I guess Isi kind of could be, but he's not going to get enough minutes to be a real threat there. Maybe this move is mostly because the team likes what they had in Gloster. Thinking back, I thought he's looked decent in his few cameos, but just not quite enough sample size yet.
• Would love it if Haak became our next Tony Rocha. That's a great shout for whoever mentioned that (sorry again, I'm just not going to go back clicking through 7 pages to credit)
• The re-signing of Acevedo. I think he still has quite a bit to learn, but this guy is going to be our next big sale. I think he shows a ton of poise and promise in his progressive passing as well in his possession, but like several of you pointed out, he needs to learn how to be more physical on the ball to keep possession better when being challenged as well as being smarter in his challenges. Those last two things come with playing time. I'm very excited to see what he turns into.

For as great as Tinnerholm is, I think the club is really pleased with what they saw from Gray during the playoffs. Gray makes $110k while Tinnerholm makes $650k. Maybe NYCFC feels comfortable with him getting selected, knowing that we have a capable RB that looks ready to be a starter. I know Gray isn't on a Tinnerholm-level at this point, but $500k can be spent on someone else.

 

[mgarbowski]

Gudi being let go is definitely very surprising. We now have no direct free kick threat on this team.

We have mostly never had a direct free kick threat on the team. Not that that is fine, but it's the way it is. And no, I don't count Pirlo. But am I crazy to think that if he practiced, Callens could become a free kick threat? I get that his PKs were more power than finesse, but he did hit top shelf both times, which many fail to do, and the one on Saturday had a nice tail-off to it.

 

[SoupInNYC]

For as great as Tinnerholm is, I think the club is really pleased with what they saw from Gray during the playoffs. Gray makes $110k while Tinnerholm makes $650k. Maybe NYCFC feels comfortable with him getting selected, knowing that we have a capable RB that looks ready to be a starter. I know Gray isn't on a Tinnerholm-level at this point, but $500k can be spent on someone else.

How about this blind comparison that I think you'll all be able to see right through:

• 2,009 minutes, 0 goals, 3 assists, 5 goal creating actions, npxG+xA 3.9, 77.4% pass completion
• 800 minutes, 0 goals, 2 assists, 3 goal creating actions, npxG+xA 1.2, 81.1% pass completion

 

[SoupInNYC]

We have mostly never had a direct free kick threat on the team. Not that that is fine, but it's the way it is. And no, I don't count Pirlo. But am I crazy to think that if he practiced, Callens could become a free kick threat? I get that his PKs were more power than finesse, but he did hit top shelf both times, which many fail to do, and the one on Saturday had a nice tail-off to it.

I'd argue Mitrita was.

I'd also argue Villa was but once Pirlo came on, they stopped letting Villa take them, so that does need to be considered.

 

[mgarbowski]

I'd argue Mitrita was.

I'd also argue Villa was but once Pirlo came on, they stopped letting Villa take them, so that does need to be considered.

Good point. Forgot about Mitrita. I think he hit 2 in 2019 just like Gudi did this year. And Villa, as you say, if they had let him.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Someone posted Doyle's NYCFC year end write-up in another thread. I strongly recommend that everyone read it.
First, it's basically NYCFC fan catnip, filled with lots of delicious goodness. Really. Trust me. This is the NYCFC column Doyle thought he would write for the last 4 years - not because he loves us but because he loves beautiful well-played soccer - and he finally got to do it.

Second, it contains a strong analysis of our roster strengths and needs. Some bullets - Taty finally became the dependable every game scorer you need - but nobody else did, after Medina showed promise the first couple of months - we really need back line depth - and more. It's really solid.

Great stuff from Doyle but I highly, highly disagree with this statement:

• Talles Magno (W/FW): Seems Castellanos-esque in his final-third movement, though he doesn’t have anywhere near the same engine.

Maybe Talles can get there, his movement seems ok. But Taty's final-third movement was elite elite. Incredibly impressive to watch. Going back to things I keep saying I'm going to do (like the corner thing that took me forever to actually get to), I need to finish that Taty movement video.

 

[mgarbowski]

Great stuff from Doyle but I highly, highly disagree with this statement:

• Talles Magno (W/FW): Seems Castellanos-esque in his final-third movement, though he doesn’t have anywhere near the same engine.

Maybe Talles can get there, his movement seems ok. But Taty's final-third movement was elite elite. Incredibly impressive to watch. Going back to things I keep saying I'm going to do (like the corner thing that took me forever to actually get to), I need to finish that Taty movement video.

Would like to see that. While looking for some old posts I stumbled across some early in 2021 where I held the opinion that Taty was not a true striker and needed someone like Heber to balance things. Oops.

 

[dark knight]

Great stuff from Doyle but I highly, highly disagree with this statement:

• Talles Magno (W/FW): Seems Castellanos-esque in his final-third movement, though he doesn’t have anywhere near the same engine.

Maybe Talles can get there, his movement seems ok. But Taty's final-third movement was elite elite. Incredibly impressive to watch. Going back to things I keep saying I'm going to do (like the corner thing that took me forever to actually get to), I need to finish that Taty movement video.

Maybe - but the part that makes Taty elite is how insanely hard he works which we aren’t getting out of Talles. I’m not sure it’s that he can’t do it. In other words, I’m not sure you disagree that much.

 

[Shwafta]

How about this blind comparison that I think you'll all be able to see right through:

• 2,009 minutes, 0 goals, 3 assists, 5 goal creating actions, npxG+xA 3.9, 77.4% pass completion
• 800 minutes, 0 goals, 2 assists, 3 goal creating actions, npxG+xA 1.2, 81.1% pass completion

Something about this feels off but I can't put my finger on it...

For as great as Tinnerholm is, I think the club is really pleased with what they saw from Gray during the playoffs. Gray makes $110k while Tinnerholm makes $650k. Maybe NYCFC feels comfortable with him getting selected, knowing that we have a capable RB that looks ready to be a starter. I know Gray isn't on a Tinnerholm-level at this point, but $500k can be spent on someone else.

But do you really want to see tinnerholm gone? He won't get selected today so I think this is a moot point, but I guess we can revisit after the draft

 

[Gotham Gator]

Apropos of nothing in particular, I will share this tidbit from a meeting I was able to attend with Ferran Soriano a couple years back. It was something the Club offered up to some potential corporate clients.

He mentioned that one CFG strategy is to use the different clubs around the world as feeders for each other, with players climbing up from lower league to potentially help out Man City. He specifically cited Taty Castellanos as someone who could fit this pattern. Remember, this was way back in Summer 2019.

 

[Gotham Gator]

How about this blind comparison that I think you'll all be able to see right through:

• 2,009 minutes, 0 goals, 3 assists, 5 goal creating actions, npxG+xA 3.9, 77.4% pass completion
• 800 minutes, 0 goals, 2 assists, 3 goal creating actions, npxG+xA 1.2, 81.1% pass completion

One thing about Tinnerholm from this season is that he was not having as strong a year as he did in 2019 & 2020. In 2021, Anton Tinnerholm was only fairly good at soccer, although we all expected him to get back to his baseline.

I posted this elsewhere, but it bears repeating. With our depth, NYCFC simply had to take some chances with this expansion draft. Tinnerholm represents a calculated risk. He is injured and it's not clear when in 2022 he will be back to 100%. He is not particularly cheap. Finally, Charlotte has already signed a RB. Those are all reasons to take the risk with him instead of another player.

Which leads to a fair question that I haven't really thought about. If we protect Tinnerholm, then who on the protected list do we leave exposed?

 

[Shwafta]

Apropos of nothing in particular, I will share this tidbit from a meeting I was able to attend with Ferran Soriano a couple years back. It was something the Club offered up to some potential corporate clients.

He mentioned that one CFG strategy is to use the different clubs around the world as feeders for each other, with players climbing up from lower league to potentially help out Man City. He specifically cited Taty Castellanos as someone who could fit this pattern. Remember, this was way back in Summer 2019.

I'm pretty sure NYCFC is the second team. Girona could potentially be in the future if they promote to the top league, but in the mean time it's clear we're #2. (Santi, Taty etc. basically prove that) And you know, we were all saying previously that if we're a feeder team it'll be hard to win anything because the players would leave very quickly etc. But if this is how it's going to be, and this year included, then I think we'll have some years where we can't win anything because the players are rotating fast, but others of strong, young unproven talent. It's gonna be wavey, but I think that's okay, if it means we'll constantly be in playoffs and contention, just not good enough for MLS cup.

 

[gbservis]

The Gudi thing just comes down to money. Gudi makes $400K, Amundsen makes $278K and both require an international spot, which are going for $250K right now. Gloster doesn't require an international spot but is making $207K. That's a ton of money tied up in the lb position.

I also think its plausible that Gudi wanted to go. In some of the pre-cup interviews, he talked about coming to NYC being a hard transition, and doing it during a pandemic made things extra isolating. Add in his preference to play as a midfielder as opposed to a LB and it's very possible the parting was mutual.

 

[Jon]

How about this blind comparison that I think you'll all be able to see right through:

• 2,009 minutes, 0 goals, 3 assists, 5 goal creating actions, npxG+xA 3.9, 77.4% pass completion
• 800 minutes, 0 goals, 2 assists, 3 goal creating actions, npxG+xA 1.2, 81.1% pass completion

I don't know what the "np" in "npxG+xA" is. Can you explain?

Never mind... Google.

Anyway, I know Gray had limited minutes, but I was impressed with what I saw. Seems like the logical thing to give Gray a chance to be the regular starter.

 

[gbservis]

I don't know what the "np" in "npxG+xA" is. Can you explain?

Never mind... Google.

Anyway, I know Gray had limited minutes, but I was impressed with what I saw. Seems like the logical thing to give Gray a chance to be the regular starter.

I agree, add in that Gray is 19 years old so nowhere close to his peak and he just went through a massive confidence-boosting experience that often leads to young players making a leap the following season and I'm excited to see what he can do this coming season.

 

[JCMore]

We have mostly never had a direct free kick threat on the team. Not that that is fine, but it's the way it is. And no, I don't count Pirlo. But am I crazy to think that if he practiced, Callens could become a free kick threat? I get that his PKs were more power than finesse, but he did hit top shelf both times, which many fail to do, and the one on Saturday had a nice tail-off to it.

The only free kick specialist I can think of on this team were in some cases Villa, and Mitrita

edit: soup beat me to it, should have read the whole thread lol

 

[LionNYC]

West Ham monitoring New York City striker Valentin Castellanos

The Argentine scored as New York City beat Portland Timbers on penalties to lift the MLS Cup last weekend, taking his tally for the season to 23 goals across all competitions.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SoupInNYC]

I agree, add in that Gray is 19 years old so nowhere close to his peak and he just went through a massive confidence-boosting experience that often leads to young players making a leap the following season and I'm excited to see what he can do this coming season.

And even before this massive confidence-boosting experience, Tayvon Gray already had plenty of it.

It's really fun to listen to this kid answer questions.