2022 Roster Discussion

[sabertooth36]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478364609971212298

First reaction is that I don't like it.

18 month loan will take him through his 23rd birthday, by which point his age value will drop pretty significantly. If you doubt the validity of age value, look at the difference between Dallas getting $20M for an 18-year-old Pepi vs us getting bids for less than $15M for 23-year-old Taty.

Maybe he really shines for Rangers and gets transfer bids from other clubs. I still think we'd have to wait until the end of the loan in order to sell him, so he's basically locked at Rangers for 18 months even if he plays his socks off and gets his valuation higher. Money now is always better than money later, and 18 months is a pretty long time. If he flops at Rangers, he'll again have to just flop there for 18 months before coming back here at a much lower value.

Then there's quality of play vs playing time. In comparing the Bundesliga to SPL, is it better for Sands to play consistently in a lower-quality SPL or start as a backup and (hopefully) work his way into the starting XI for a higher-quality Bundesliga team? Sands has said he wants to play at a "top level in Europe", and the SPL is definitely not a top level in Europe.

Sands in the Bundesliga makes too much sense to me. But I'm not a GM, so what do I know? Whatever happens, I wish the best for him.

 

[Gotham Gator]

I am not sure I get this one either. Yes, he will have a few high profile tussles with Celtic, and some string of European games (likely short). But outside of that, the level of competition he will face will not be better (and may be worse) to what he's been getting. I don't see how this aids his development or provides an opportunity to prove himself against tougher competition.

Some say that he will now be playing in a league with better exposure in Europe, but are we really living in a world where a European team can't properly value a player plying his trade in NYC? In 2022?

Perhaps the reception for him in Europe has been tepid, and this is a plan to force the issue a bit. If so, I suppose that makes sense - particularly if Sands is pushing for a move. I just doubt that this is his best opportunity.

 

[Shwafta]

I am not sure I get this one either. Yes, he will have a few high profile tussles with Celtic, and some string of European games (likely short). But outside of that, the level of competition he will face will not be better (and may be worse) to what he's been getting. I don't see how this aids his development or provides an opportunity to prove himself against tougher competition.

Some say that he will now be playing in a league with better exposure in Europe, but are we really living in a world where a European team can't properly value a player plying his trade in NYC? In 2022?

Perhaps the reception for him in Europe has been tepid, and this is a plan to force the issue a bit. If so, I suppose that makes sense - particularly if Sands is pushing for a move. I just doubt that this is his best opportunity.

Europa League this spring, as well as CL qualifying path next year. He's gonna be playing those, which is definitely better experience than MLS, at least. (imo)

 

[Kjbert]

SPL is decent again FWIW.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

I am not sure I get this one either. Yes, he will have a few high profile tussles with Celtic, and some string of European games (likely short). But outside of that, the level of competition he will face will not be better (and may be worse) to what he's been getting. I don't see how this aids his development or provides an opportunity to prove himself against tougher competition.

Some say that he will now be playing in a league with better exposure in Europe, but are we really living in a world where a European team can't properly value a player plying his trade in NYC? In 2022?

Perhaps the reception for him in Europe has been tepid, and this is a plan to force the issue a bit. If so, I suppose that makes sense - particularly if Sands is pushing for a move. I just doubt that this is his best opportunity.

Could have a lot to do with playing time. Could also have something to do with proximity. He’s spend his entire life here and it’s a fairly easy flight back and forth. No language barrier either. It’s a great opportunity for him to play on a bigger stage and showcase his skill.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Do we get a fee for loaning a player? Are we getting a fee now, then we hope he explodes and we sell him for more in 18 months?

 

[Fake Jew]

Is it possible that the people Sands surrounded himself with hyped Rangers up and he just likes the club? Claudio is well-liked there, so it can't be too far out of the question.

 

[Kjbert]

Is it possible that the people Sands surrounded himself with hyped Rangers up and he just likes the club? Claudio is well-liked there, so it can't be too far out of the question.

Don’t forget that Gio VB was one bad game away from becoming our manager.

 

[DeGrozz]

I am not sure I get this one either. Yes, he will have a few high profile tussles with Celtic, and some string of European games (likely short). But outside of that, the level of competition he will face will not be better (and may be worse) to what he's been getting. I don't see how this aids his development or provides an opportunity to prove himself against tougher competition.

Some say that he will now be playing in a league with better exposure in Europe, but are we really living in a world where a European team can't properly value a player plying his trade in NYC? In 2022?

Perhaps the reception for him in Europe has been tepid, and this is a plan to force the issue a bit. If so, I suppose that makes sense - particularly if Sands is pushing for a move. I just doubt that this is his best opportunity.

Sands just signed a long-term deal right?

It is apparent we are trying to be a team that young talent wants to play for. I'm just going to assume that when Sands signed his deal, the club promised to place him on a good Europe transfer or, if that transfer offer never came, help him get loaned out to a team that will help him develop.

Good for the long-term reputation of the club, not so good for our short-term on-the-field quality.

Pure speculation on my part, obviously.

 

[Kjbert]

Sands just signed a long-term deal right?

It is apparent we are trying to be a team that young talent wants to play for. I'm just going to assume that when Sands signed his deal, the club promised to place him on a good Europe transfer or, if that transfer offer never came, help him get loaned out to a team that will help him develop.

Good for the long-term reputation of the club, not so good for our short-term on-the-field quality.

Pure speculation on my part, obviously.

I like this. Maybe the fees and the teams are worse than they were 18 months ago. We do him a solid and place him with our friend GVB.

 

[Shwafta]

Sands just signed a long-term deal right?

It is apparent we are trying to be a team that young talent wants to play for. I'm just going to assume that when Sands signed his deal, the club promised to place him on a good Europe transfer or, if that transfer offer never came, help him get loaned out to a team that will help him develop.

Good for the long-term reputation of the club, not so good for our short-term on-the-field quality.

Pure speculation on my part, obviously.

I mean, on the re-sign video and all that they spoke about how they had an agreement for Europe in place. We obviously don't know that agreement, but you have to assume it favors James, based on the reports we're seeing especially here with Rangers.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Good for the long-term reputation of the club, not so good for our short-term on-the-field quality.

On this point - it really helps that we won the Cup last month. Really takes the pressure off and allows the front office to do things like this without fans getting frustrated. It'll be sad to see him go as a fan-favorite, but really happy for him that he gets to go to Europe, prove himself, and hopefully move to a bigger team in a couple years.

 

[GratefulDawg]

Sands just signed a long-term deal right?

It is apparent we are trying to be a team that young talent wants to play for. I'm just going to assume that when Sands signed his deal, the club promised to place him on a good Europe transfer or, if that transfer offer never came, help him get loaned out to a team that will help him develop.

Good for the long-term reputation of the club, not so good for our short-term on-the-field quality.

Pure speculation on my part, obviously.

I think we are doing this to set up the next generation of local players that come through. Succeed here like James Sands did, and we'll get you to the next level.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Do we get a fee for loaning a player? Are we getting a fee now, then we hope he explodes and we sell him for more in 18 months?

The economics can vary. Maybe the loan recipient pays his salary and its a wash; maybe they pay only part, and we have to cover the rest; maybe they pay us extra.

What's not clear is how any of that is treated by MLS.

In Sands' case, I think we can rest assured that we are not subsidizing his wages. If anything, we are getting something back.

 

[Shwafta]

What if they're doing it this way in hopes that the economy will shoot back up and they can get more for him in 18 months?

 

[ZYanksRule]

The economics can vary. Maybe the loan recipient pays his salary and its a wash; maybe they pay only part, and we have to cover the rest; maybe they pay us extra.

What's not clear is how any of that is treated by MLS.

In Sands' case, I think we can rest assured that we are not subsidizing his wages. If anything, we are getting something back.

Well we know a loaned out player doesn't count against the salary cap or in any roster mechanisms.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Well we know a loaned out player doesn't count against the salary cap or in any roster mechanisms.

That’s not completely true. Scroll through this thread from Tenorio

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478540540706709504

Based on how I’m reading this, it seems to me that Mitrita was still counting as a DP.

So perhaps when Talles Magno came on, the club was able to not count Medina as a DP based on how I’m reading what Tenorio posted.

ETA: I really want to emphasize to read Tenorio’s thread there. I’m referencing several things he says after that tweet above.

 

[Shwafta]

That’s not completely true. Scroll through this thread from Tenorio

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478540540706709504

Based on how I’m reading this, it seems to me that Mitrita was still counting as a DP.

So perhaps when Talles Magno came on, the club was able to not count Medina as a DP based on how I’m reading what Tenorio posted.

ETA: I really want to emphasize to read Tenorio’s thread there. I’m referencing several things he says after that tweet above.

This is the kind of questions we should ask David Lee, as he and Sims are probably the people who know more about this. Which could clarify this for us in the future. (Though it would help us exactly 0% since we'll anyway just be speculating with future data lmao)

 

[Gotham Gator]

My recollection is that when Mitrita was loaned to Saudi Arabia, the Club said that this freed up a DP slot. They didn't say anything either way when that loan was canceled, and Mitrita went to Greece.

Incidentally, Transfermarkt says that there was a $550K loan fee paid by the club in Greece.

I believe Mitrita's contract runs out at the end of the 2022 season, while the loan runs out in the summer. Hopefully, the Club can sort out the last half year.

 

[FredMertz]

No language barrier either.