2022 Roster Discussion

[Brooklyn Blue]

The situation to loan Taty now firmly puts Girona’s wants ahead of NYCFC.

This is fucking terrible from the organization. Mickey Mouse shit

Disagree. Similar to Sands, it is a promise to a young player that helps the team when they want to sign the next wave of young players. It isn't just the team, it is the person.

And, as noted in another post, for accounting reasons delay of the sale until 2023 could be of benefit.

 

[KevinJRogers]

It may also be an accounting maneuver to allow for signing Callens/Johnson/Tinnerholm. Or, a signal that MLS might change some salary rules next year?

Both of these may be true.

 

[ZYanksRule]

The situation to loan Taty now firmly puts Girona’s wants ahead of NYCFC.

This is fucking terrible from the organization. Mickey Mouse shit

Could not disagree more. This is putting Taty's desire to move to Europe ahead of the team. Which, frankly, is perfectly acceptable. He wanted to test himself in Europe. No one came up to our valuation, so we punted the decision by 12 months. If he kills it in Girona, he can get sold for way more than what we were asking for. If he bags 10-15 goals in Girona this season, he'll be worth double what we were asking for. And he's still an NYCFC player, so we get that money whenever he does get sold. This is smart business. His valuation isn't being met, so put him in a situation where he can build up that valuation.

He had nothing left to prove here. It was time for him to move on to Europe.

 

[moogoo]

New York City Football Club Forward Taty Castellanos to join Girona FC on Loan | New York City FC

New York, N.Y., July 25, 2022 – New York City Football Club (NYCFC) today announced that Forward Valentín “Taty” Castellanos has been loaned to LaLiga and City Football Group team Girona FC through June 2023. Last season, Castellanos won the 2021 MLS Golden Boot, scoring 19 goals during the regular

www.nycfc.com

 

[CCMore]

Goodbye Taty! We will miss you and your scoring boots here at the club! NYC will always welcome you as a home! Please go kill it in Europe! Many of us will be watching! Taty Taty Taty Goledor! #Tatygol #leyenda #campeones

 

[moogoo]

Could not disagree more. This is putting Taty's desire to move to Europe ahead of the team. Which, frankly, is perfectly acceptable. He wanted to test himself in Europe. No one came up to our valuation, so we punted the decision by 12 months. If he kills it in Girona, he can get sold for way more than what we were asking for. If he bags 10-15 goals in Girona this season, he'll be worth double what we were asking for. And he's still an NYCFC player, so we get that money whenever he does get sold. This is smart business. His valuation isn't being met, so put him in a situation where he can build up that valuation.

He had nothing left to prove here. It was time for him to move on to Europe.

Yea I agree.

This is making the player happy while knowing we have players who can step up and fill the void. it's also a good gamble for the club for the reasons you listed.

we don't want to be known as a club who stifles young player dreams. we want to be known as the club who brings in young players, develops them into MVP caliber players, and helps them move onto to even better leagues to improve further. that is any young player's dream and desire and having that reputation will help us sign players.

sad to see him go, but wish him the very best. i'll be watching all girona games from now on

 

[moogoo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551601972381360128

 

[Kjbert]

If you understand MLS Cap rules, you recognize that this is the worst case scenario for us. Sorry, but you’re all wrong here and it’s easily proveable.

The GAM component of a sale maxes out at $1.1 million.

We should have sold him to literally anyone for $2.5 million or more. That was the hurdle. That is what was in the best interest of NYCFC. If Leeds or Everton or West Ham offered anything north of $2.5 million, then we should have sold him.

CFG held out for more. That’s not in the best interest of NYCFC. They think he’s an undervalued asset. But as far as MLS rules go, that’s meaningless for how transfers work.

 

[moogoo]

club is going all out on saying goodbye. they are pretty confident this loan is essentially setting him up for a full transfer.

 

[mgarbowski]

I see no basis for approving of the Sands deal (from a club-centric perspective) and not this. We made almost no public effort to sell Sands before loaning him to Rangers and giving them the option to buy at a fixed price, which puts a cap on our upside while retaining all risk.
We held Taty back a half season, tried hard to sell him during Europe's primary window, nobody met our price, so we loaned him as well. I see no mention of a loan fee, but also nothing about an option. So there's a decent chance we retain both the upside and risk. The lack of a loan fee, if that is the case, is disappointing, but that's the only negative I see here given how things went.

 

[KevinJRogers]

we want to be known as the club who brings in young players, develops them into MVP caliber players, and helps them move onto to even better leagues to improve further.

Lee says this explicitly in his statement. No doubt in my mind the team has one eye on that Latin American pipeline at all times. It's working, too.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Also for MLS cap rules, Taty is no longer on our salary cap charge for this season. Per MLSPA, he was making $900,000 (guaranteed compensation of $1.076M. So we now get some of that money back for the rest of the year, and if we were right up against the salary cap, we can sign another player at that price point.

 

[KevinJRogers]

If you understand MLS Cap rules, you recognize that this is the worst case scenario for us. Sorry, but you’re all wrong here and it’s easily proveable.

The GAM component of a sale maxes out at $1.1 million.

We should have sold him to literally anyone for $2.5 million or more. That was the hurdle. That is what was in the best interest of NYCFC. If Leeds or Everton or West Ham offered anything north of $2.5 million, then we should have sold him.

CFG held out for more. That’s not in the best interest of NYCFC. They think he’s an undervalued asset. But as far as MLS rules go, that’s meaningless for how transfers work.

I'm not sure I understand this. I mean, yeah, we get roster relief but not Salary Budget relief short-term, but if there's a transfer/loan fee the team gets to pocket the cash over and above the GAM assignment, yes?

"The club may assign up to $1,102,5000 of the transfer/loan revenue as General Allocation Money. In the case of Designated Players, transfer/loan revenue may not be assigned as General Allocation Money. In the case of U22 Initiative Slot players, please refer to the section on U22 Initiative Roster Slots.

The remaining balance of the club's share (if any), and which cannot be traded, will be distributed by the League to the Club as cash."

If, somewhere down the road, we sell Taty for -- I'm just throwing a number out here -- $20 million, the team gets all the cash which it does not assign to GAM, right?

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

If you understand MLS Cap rules, you recognize that this is the worst case scenario for us. Sorry, but you’re all wrong here and it’s easily proveable.

The GAM component of a sale maxes out at $1.1 million.

We should have sold him to literally anyone for $2.5 million or more. That was the hurdle. That is what was in the best interest of NYCFC. If Leeds or Everton or West Ham offered anything north of $2.5 million, then we should have sold him.

CFG held out for more. That’s not in the best interest of NYCFC. They think he’s an undervalued asset. But as far as MLS rules go, that’s meaningless for how transfers work.

You are correct with respect to the math of the transaction under MLS rules. But it is myopic to worry about 1.1 million GAM on July 25, 2022.

Helping Taty achieve his goals bolsters NYCFC's reputation among young players seeking to follow a similar path. Taty didn't complain or whine and he moved to one of the top four leagues in the world. This helps attract the next Taty - and helps prevent a Magno or a Santi from becoming disgruntled in 2024.

The team may not have a suitable target for 1.1 million GAM for the final third of 2022. There are so, so many examples of teams spending to spend and not spending to win. All you need to do is look at the Knicks for the past, oh, 30 years. A sale in June 2023 (or in January, if Taty thrives), still allows that 1.1 million to go to salary. As has been discussed, there are a number of key free agents this year - perhaps the team wants to bank more GAM or TAM for 2023 when they need it.

Beyond salary, earning more money for the team can only help pay coaches more (so they don't leave mid-season) or fund stadium efforts. More from a sale can mean more than pure salary relief.

Rumors have been floating for the past couple of years that MLS may ease its salary cap structure. The team may know more about this then we know - what if MLS rules allow a greater retention in 2023? We would all be complaining about the lost opportunity if Taty was sold now.

NYCFC has done an excellent job scouting young players and redefining a plan for the team once it abandoned the aging star approach. If someone wants to call me overly optimistic, I'll accept it - but the past few years have shown me that there is a larger plan in place. Nothing in this deal is out of line with that plan.

(I'd also note that as long as Girona is in La Liga, they will be higher than NYCFC in the CFG hierarchy. If (when Girona is relegated, NYCFC will move back to No. 2).

 

[ZYanksRule]

If you understand MLS Cap rules, you recognize that this is the worst case scenario for us. Sorry, but you’re all wrong here and it’s easily proveable.

The GAM component of a sale maxes out at $1.1 million.

We should have sold him to literally anyone for $2.5 million or more. That was the hurdle. That is what was in the best interest of NYCFC. If Leeds or Everton or West Ham offered anything north of $2.5 million, then we should have sold him.

CFG held out for more. That’s not in the best interest of NYCFC. They think he’s an undervalued asset. But as far as MLS rules go, that’s meaningless for how transfers work.

Except that the team also wants to make money itself on a deal -- and they also want to set the market for future players with similar numbers who come through our doors. MLS salary cap rules are not the only factor in a deal like this.

 

[ZYanksRule]

You are correct with respect to the math of the transaction under MLS rules. But it is myopic to worry about 1.1 million GAM on July 25, 2022.

Helping Taty achieve his goals bolsters NYCFC's reputation among young players seeking to follow a similar path. Taty didn't complain or whine and he moved to one of the top four leagues in the world. This helps attract the next Taty - and helps prevent a Magno or a Santi from becoming disgruntled in 2024.

The team may not have a suitable target for 1.1 million GAM for the final third of 2022. There are so, so many examples of teams spending to spend and not spending to win. All you need to do is look at the Knicks for the past, oh, 30 years. A sale in June 2023 (or in January, if Taty thrives), still allows that 1.1 million to go to salary. As has been discussed, there are a number of key free agents this year - perhaps the team wants to bank more GAM or TAM for 2023 when they need it.

Beyond salary, earning more money for the team can only help pay coaches more (so they don't leave mid-season) or fund stadium efforts. More from a sale can mean more than pure salary relief.

Rumors have been floating for the past couple of years that MLS may ease its salary cap structure. The team may know more about this then we know - what if MLS rules allow a greater retention in 2023? We would all be complaining about the lost opportunity if Taty was sold now.

NYCFC has done an excellent job scouting young players and redefining a plan for the team once it abandoned the aging star approach. If someone wants to call me overly optimistic, I'll accept it - but the past few years have shown me that there is a larger plan in place. Nothing in this deal is out of line with that plan.

(I'd also note that as long as Girona is in La Liga, they will be higher than NYCFC in the CFG hierarchy. If (when Girona is relegated, NYCFC will move back to No. 2).

All of this.

 

[FredMertz]

If you understand MLS Cap rules, you recognize that this is the worst case scenario for us. Sorry, but you’re all wrong here and it’s easily proveable.

The GAM component of a sale maxes out at $1.1 million.

We should have sold him to literally anyone for $2.5 million or more. That was the hurdle. That is what was in the best interest of NYCFC. If Leeds or Everton or West Ham offered anything north of $2.5 million, then we should have sold him.

CFG held out for more. That’s not in the best interest of NYCFC. They think he’s an undervalued asset. But as far as MLS rules go, that’s meaningless for how transfers work.

You're maybe confusing MLS funny money with actual money?

NYCFC gets all of the money, no? They just don't get an equal amount of Garber Bucks.

They own an asset that they think the market is significantly undervaluing. This allows them to test that thesis.

Don't forget that this club has been hemorrhaging money hand over fist for the last few years. They want full value.

 

[Kjbert]

It is not myopic to look at this through the prism of this season.

Guess you guys don’t want to win this season!

 

[Shwafta]

It is not myopic to look at this through the prism of this season.

Guess you guys don’t want to win this season!

I just don't see it the way you are seeing it at all.

I don't see Taty leaving bc he wants to go to europe and the team agreeing as people not wanting to win this season, nor as the team not wanting to win this season. I'm very happy for Taty to go and pursue his dreams. The team was aware this might happen and they more than likely have a plan in place. It's not like this came out of the blue, a la Ronny.

(also, wouldn't the definition of the word "myopic" mean that looking through the prism of this season.... is myopic?)

 

[Fantazma]

It is not myopic to look at this through the prism of this season.

Guess you guys don’t want to win this season!

even if they got paid, they were not getting a DP this summer to replace taty. if anything they would get another player like taty when he was signed. unknown player who played in south american league.