Red Bulls - Postmatch

[LionNYC]

https://www.nycfc.com/post/2018/05/05/vieira-reaction-red-bulls-4-0-nycfc?autoplay=true

This will eventually come out on Twitter, but it's on the site currently.

1. Vieira said he thought they had a good plan coming into the match and trained well during the week but the players didn't sacrifice enough for the team. But refusing to say he got the plan wrong, it shows the weakness of him as a manager.

2. Inacceptable, a new Vieira-ism

 

[LionNYC]

I love the fact there is literally no objective criticism of my points.

Well done, pecker weeds. Well damn done.

ETA: yes, I’m pissed off our team looked gutless, bald scrotumed dickheads. And I blame our manager and his pisspoor tactics and lineup decisions.

I love Ulrich (despite his ill conceived love for sweat) and LionNYC (despite his ill conceived self imposed twitter mandate of retweeting things as though they were original)

The important thing to recognize is Ben Swear (yeah, I know) doesn’t deserve and cannot be a starter for a team intent on competing for trophies in MLS.

My only point to defend Sweat was that we couldn't see him go forward more because he had to contain the Red Bull attack. And then he played on the right in the second half and when was the last time he played RB?

So it's not that Ben Sweat was bad, but rather he was put in a situation where he couldn't succeed.

Yeah, I can definitely manage an MLS club, or at least be a manager in the post game press conference.

 

[Dnigly13]

So glad I didn’t go. Anyone know the red bull chant we sing about shitting on the bastards below.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

My only point to defend Sweat was that we couldn't see him go forward more because he had to contain the Red Bull attack. And then he played on the right in the second half and when was the last time he played RB?

So it's not that Ben Sweat was bad, but rather he was put in a situation where he couldn't succeed.

Yeah, I can definitely manage an MLS club, or at least be a manager in the post game press conference.

I see nothing but Sweat being integral in losing the match for us.

He literally never even attempts to hustle. I have zero patience for that, and I don’t understand what our pisspoor placeholder Vieira sees in him.

 

[LionNYC]

So glad I didn’t go. Anyone know the red bull chant we sing about shitting on the bastards below.

I could only decipher three chants at RBA the entire day. 1) Hey Baby 2) Fuck the Red Bulls 3) Fuck these T-Shirts.

Apparently RB fans sang take me out to the ballgame. Couldn't make it out.

 

[hatt91]

1. Vieira said he thought they had a good plan coming into the match and trained well during the week but the players didn't sacrifice enough for the team. But refusing to say he got the plan wrong, it shows the weakness of him as a manager.

He has said numerous times that they don’t really change their play based on their opponent. They work on making their style of play better. This shows his extreme arrogance. He thinks his idea on how to play is so good, that no other coach could devise a system of beating it.

What exactly was the game plan? Everyone in the universe knows the Redbull style of play. How in the world could we play our regular game and expect to be successful?

The fact that he changed the formation and made two subs at half time proves that he finally realized whatever they had worked on during the week wasn’t working. So his ‘good plan’ was actually shit. He made a quick back of the napkin adjustment and it worked much better.. If that was so obvious, why not start out that way? It’s because he believes his original system is superior to all others.

As far as the players and their attitude, I can foresee a couple of possibilities.

1. Vieira told them to treat it just like any other game so they maybe won’t get over excited.

2.They didn’t understand what Vieira wanted them to do

3.They understood what Vieira wanted them to do, and just didn’t believe in it.

 

[SanBartG]

https://streamable.com/1jaih

The real reason we lost...

Bad juju.

 

[Jon]

I want to say it’s mental but I think more on Patrick than the players. I think he set them up to fail in the first half. We saw a different team in the second and for good reason, they were better prepared to beat the press.
First half we couldn’t get past the press and our defense was stretched every time RB attacked.
Second half we made changes at the back and looked completely different tactically.
He got it wrong out of the gate and by the time he could fix it the damage had been done. Whenever a coach makes 2 changes at half time you know he knows he screwed up.

My issue is, we all know the style of play for the Red Bulls. I mean, raise your hand if you knew they were going to press and wait for us to make a mistake and counter attack! That's always their game plan under Marsch. So why didn't Vieria plan for that? Vieria is responsible for the loss today.

 

[Gotham Gator]

This game turned everything upside down. I hope it's only momentarily.

It's early in the season but my gut feeling is that it's time for Villa to bow out gracefully. He's done everything.



Exactly. He's a guy that is perpetually switched on. He cares and if he's talking, I'm listening.

I love you, man, but this seems way over the top. Especially given that he was terrific in his last game.

 

[NickFromAstoria]

2. Inacceptable, a new Vieira-ism

Me fail coaching? That's unpossible!

 

[Gotham Gator]

There is a developing argument, both here and on Twitter, between two narratives. The first is that our guys failed to match the focus and effort of the Red Bulls. The second is that Vieira failed tactically.

To me, it is obvious it’s a bit of both, but I think this was more about effort and focus. I didn’t see us getting to balls or closing down players or passing lanes at nearly the rate as our opponent.

On the other hand, I threw in the towel at halftime and didn’t see how the tactical adjustments affected things.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Me fail coaching? That's unpossible!

 

[Gotham Gator]

As for the narrative that getting up for big games is a continuing problem, I will meet people halfway. Certainly it happened in this game, and two years ago in the Red Bull Wedding. It didn’t happen a couple weeks ago in Atlanta, where we played hard and with purpose and pulled out about the hardest result in the league right now. It didn’t happen for the return leg in the playoffs last year.

 

[Keith Putnam]

It's also hard to ignore the hammer-blow a team's psyche takes when they concede two goals in the first five minutes. It makes me wonder if we maybe would have "grown into" the game a bit if that second, deflected, goal had gone over the bar instead of under it.

But as others have mentioned, Vieria basically refuses to have a plan B and said as much back when I asked him about it at one of the Pub Partner events in his first season. He's gonna be in MLS for a while.

...what am I saying? Sam fucking Allardyce has no plan B and he seems to be getting his contract renewed at Everton so grrrararrrrr

 

[Seven]

It's also hard to ignore the hammer-blow a team's psyche takes when they concede two goals in the first five minutes. It makes me wonder if we maybe would have "grown into" the game a bit if that second, deflected, goal had gone over the bar instead of under it.

But as others have mentioned, Vieria basically refuses to have a plan B and said as much back when I asked him about it at one of the Pub Partner events in his first season. He's gonna be in MLS for a while.

...what am I saying? Sam fucking Allardyce has no plan B and he seems to be getting his contract renewed at Everton so grrrararrrrr

I also wonder this, about the affect of the quick two goals. It is still frustrating that they deflated so much, and frustrating that other then vs Dallas, we seem to sleep walk through the first 15-20 minutes of a game

 

[roxfontaine]

I love you, man, but this seems way over the top. Especially given that he was terrific in his last game.

The score line would have it seem that we played much better than we did. We weren't that great.

This team was so much more fluid and dynamic with Tajouri-Shradi. Red Bull knew to force us right and get Maxi deep. This will always work because the deference to Villa is paramount and when it's not going our way he makes bad decisions.

This was just a total collapse. The reasons why will be hotly debated. I recognize that my take is a hot button but this team has evolved and Villa needs to evolve too.

 

[LeeNYCFC]

The idea that Vieira made a good adjustment at the half ignores that Red Bull took their foot off so they could conserve energy and coast to the win. If Medina doesn’t find an impossible way to fuck up that header and it got to 3-1 they would’ve absolutely switched back on.

I do think a 3-5-2 has potential if Ibeagha is starter quality (and thought it was even more relevant last year with Brillant around). The solution to Sweat somehow being the best option (but clearly our worst starter) for how he wants to play is to want to play differently. But in Year 3 of PV my hope of him wanting to coach to the roster is flatlined.

 

[BxLio91]

As for the narrative that getting up for big games is a continuing problem, I will meet people halfway. Certainly it happened in this game, and two years ago in the Red Bull Wedding. It didn’t happen a couple weeks ago in Atlanta, where we played hard and with purpose and pulled out about the hardest result in the league right now. It didn’t happen for the return leg in the playoffs last year.

What bigger games do we have outside of red bull, open cup and playoffs? What is our record in those games? And I've seen the CLB playoff return leg brought up as an example of us being up for it in a big game. Let's ignore the fact that we shit the bed so bad in the first leg all Columbus had to do was sit back. Let's ignore the fact that it still wasn't enough and that we were eliminated anyway. Anyone saying we're a big game team might as well tell me we played well yesterday.
As to my thoughts about yesterday, I've made them know in the chatbox and many of you guys had the same ones in here. Typically I wouldn't want that out in the public but I'm glad Ring called out Villa's goddamned flicks who work as often as we show up in big games.

 

[canchon]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Christopher Jee]

I worry about how we'll come out of this moment - feels like we're on a knife's edge.

With emotions running as high as they are right now, I could imagine players and staff reacting pridefully to the accusations that seem to be flying around, and the team going into a spiral of worsening morale. Best case scenario, everybody owns their role in this catastrophe, puts aside pride and resentment and works together for mutual benefit.

Tactically, we were very predictable. Without true wingers to get wide and behind full backs, everything went into the center and we got crushed. It seemed to me that Herrera was deeper than usual, which also meant that there weren't as many faces for Ring to get the ball to, which may have explained our problems getting it through midfield.

Against Dallas, it looked like we had a different look where we were popping the ball over the top to Berget / Villa / Medina. We saw a variation of this against RB last year. Did anyone catch why we weren't able to execute on that yesterday? Was there something different about RB's press that we didn't catch or plan for? Would need to watch a lot more video and I'm not sure I'm inclined.

On an individual level, we just weren't up for a fight. I don't know if we won any duels apart from Herrera. Nobody wanted to hold the ball and get their head up. We were intimidated. That's also where I feel like the fancy flicks come from. It's not really the "we are playing well and have the luxury of doing this" kinda shit. It's the "I don't wanna have the ball" type shit. And when you're working so hard to retain the ball already, giving away the ball that cheaply is morale-sapping and nothing like the kind of leadership we sorely needed. Ring's comment was totally on point.

To the coaching staff's credit, the switch to 3ATB seemed to make a difference. As the front sweeper, Ring was receiving the ball facing the right way and there were two extra faces in the center to pass to. It could have been that RB took their foot off the gas, but it looked like it allowed our full backs to get higher and let the whole team breathe a bit. Seemed to me like we had a couple of half chances. Who knows what happens if we put one or two of those away? I hope that going forward we can make this kind of adjustment in-game and not just at half time when it's too late.

As a slight change of subject, the group I was with decided to walk to Newark Penn instead of Harrison and we tried to take a drink in at Bello's, near the station. Walked in and it was mobbed with RB fans who immediately started booing us and chanting "NY is red". There wasn't a ton to respond to, so we ate shit and were having a laugh about it when a super aggressive dude came over and started pushing a couple of us around and telling us we were in the wrong bar. A couple of us were nursing pretty bad injuries, so we told him to chill and the RB fans closest to us cut him off and told him he was out of line and invited us in for a drink on them. It was an infinitesimally small bright spot on a terrible day, overall.

Oh and props to everyone involved in putting on the tailgate and everyone who turned up to support the team. Days like yesterday make the good days even better.