2022 Roster Discussion

[Antidote P. Smiley]

we went into the playoffs last year missing parks and anton and won the cup. scrutinized view of haak and gp, sure they have lots to improve. but come playoff time, who knows what sort of magic can happen. last year around this time we had given up on any cup possibility. after last year, i don't think there's any situation where we can say we can't make a run aside from half our team being out injured.

Haak is going to have to significantly get better at passing from the small sample size seen so far. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think he approaches where Sands was last year. I don’t think there is any doubt that shipping Wands out, the loss of Parks, Taty loan, Maxi being older and more fragile, inevitable yellow card accumulation for Morales, Tinnerholm still battling back… This team is in a more tenuous state than last year even with adding GP and the ascension of Magno.

 

[moogoo]

We have the ability to convert a free DP spot.

We’re not using all of the tools at our disposal. LAFC and Toronto are doing that.

i think we'll see more moves next season with mitri off the books completely and maxi either gone or officially non-DP.

 

[moogoo]

Haak is going to have to significantly get better at passing from the small sample size seen so far. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think he approaches where Sands was last year. I don’t think there is any doubt that shipping Wands out, the loss of Parks, Taty loan, Maxi being older and more fragile, inevitable yellow card accumulation for Morales, Tinnerholm still battling back… This team is in a more tenuous state than last year even with adding GP and the ascension of Magno.

Haak is where Sands was in 2019 when Dome trusted him to start games. Sands was not a passer back then and was limited to playing safe passes square or back. very rarely was he breaking lines or making diagonal switches. that part of his game did not develop until end of 2020 and beginning of 2021. Haak needs time to firstly get used to the pace of MLS and then work on his vision. but I think he has the potential to get there. My point is that you can't compare Haak now with 2021 Sands. You have to compare Haak now with 2019 Sands and I think it's fairly comparable with the difference being Sands is more calm/sure on the ball, while Haak is more dynamic and agile.

 

[Kjbert]

i think we'll see more moves next season with mitri off the books completely and maxi either gone or officially non-DP.

I agree with you. But that seems to mean we’re not going “all-in” this season.

Man City would never do that. We’re not ALL IN.

 

[Kjbert]

Very bullish on Haak. So is the Club. Just needs time and the lack of cover and Zelalem poor play moved him up unexpectedly

 

[moogoo]

I agree with you. But that seems to mean we’re not going “all-in” this season.

Man City would never do that. We’re not ALL IN.

LAFC had 2 open DP slots so they used them. TFC did the same.

We aren't in that position this year. It is what it is. We have a good squad. We've just had a lot of shakeups this year and each one has made us stumble a bit before we found our feet again

 

[Kjbert]

LAFC had 2 open DP slots so they used them. TFC did the same.

We aren't in that position this year. It is what it is. We have a good squad. We've just had a lot of shakeups this year and each one has made us stumble a bit before we found our feet again

Maxi took a pay cut so that we could convert him to a TAM player.

Then we went out and didn’t bring in a DP. So we went out and spent TAM (very valuable) on Maxi’s budget charge and then proceeded to not take advantage of that roster flexibility.

We also loaned out our two most valuable assets without gaining any AM and roster maneuverability.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I agree with you. But that seems to mean we’re not going “all-in” this season.

Man City would never do that. We’re not ALL IN.

We won a championship last year. We went to the CCL semifinals. To say this team isn't all-in is a little much for me. You don't win a championship without being all-in. Do you want to say they're taking this year as a victory tour? Maybe -- but that's OK. They're entitled to it, they earned it.

And we're right at the top of the conference standings and not that far off from the Supporters' Shield lead. Not all-in? Come on.

 

[Kjbert]

We won a championship last year. We went to the CCL semifinals. To say this team isn't all-in is a little much for me. You don't win a championship without being all-in. Do you want to say they're taking this year as a victory tour? Maybe -- but that's OK. They're entitled to it, they earned it.

And we're right at the top of the conference standings and not that far off from the Supporters' Shield lead. Not all-in? Come on.

You come on. We have the ability to bring in a Designated Player. We loaned out our two most valuable assets with nothing to show for it.

So yea. We’re not all in.

 

[Shwafta]

We won a championship last year. We went to the CCL semifinals. To say this team isn't all-in is a little much for me. You don't win a championship without being all-in. Do you want to say they're taking this year as a victory tour? Maybe -- but that's OK. They're entitled to it, they earned it.

And we're right at the top of the conference standings and not that far off from the Supporters' Shield lead. Not all-in? Come on.

I do agree with Kjbert that we're not all-in. However, I don't believe that's a problem. We've seen teams _try_ to go all-in and fail. I think the path we're taking is fine, even if we aren't using all the DP slots. We're clearly doing very well without all the DP slots, and the team is trying to economize - and still do well.

I'd prefer if we brought in a great DP signing, but I'm not unhappy with what we've done this year either.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Maxi took a pay cut so that we could convert him to a TAM player.

Then we went out and didn’t bring in a DP. So we went out and spent TAM (very valuable) on Maxi’s budget charge and then proceeded to not take advantage of that roster flexibility.

We also loaned out our two most valuable assets without gaining any AM and roster maneuverability.

The club has not spent TAM on Maxi's budget charge. He is a DP.

The club could use TAM on Maxi's budget charge to free up a DP spot and use it elsewhere.

 

[Marito]

I think NYCFC has decided on a different model than ATL, TOR, LAFC etc. And that model is centered in developing U22 South American players acquired relatively cheaply (with Magno being an exception) rather than importing many high-priced stars. Maxi was a mid-price DP, who was a bench player at Tigres. Taty was brought from a club that at the time played in the Uruguayan 2nd division, for example. Sometimes the super-big spending model yields great results, like LAFC, sometimes it turns into a mess, like ATL right now. Those who claim we are not all-in after winning the Cup with a squad that wasn't among the biggest spenders, think that the big-spending model guarantees results. I am not so sure.

 

[Marito]

To put it differently: since the early days we haven't bought stars. We have either repurposed midtier players into stars, like Maxi, or created stars from young players, like Taty, Sands and Keaton. It's a noble calling IMHO.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

I agree with you. But that seems to mean we’re not going “all-in” this season.

Man City would never do that. We’re not ALL IN.

Comparing any NYCFC - let alone any MLS team - to Manchester City is a reach. A top team in the wealthiest league in the world vs. a team in a salary apped league.

Removing that from the comparison, it's clear that the team is not pushing as hard as LAFC with respect to transfers this season, but there are several factors that could contribute to this - the least of which, in my opinion, is team commitment. Consider:

1) The transfer market is still a mess after COVID. See:

How loans have risen to dominate the Covid-affected transfer market | Ed Aarons

In the summer window more than 30% of deals were loans as cash-strapped Italian and Spanish clubs search for ways to cut costs

www.theguardian.com

https://theathletic.com/3444898/2022/07/25/uefa-covid-19-transfer-market/ (this may be subscription only)

The loans for Sands and Taty we're typical of the market as a whole shifting to loans over traditional transfers. Add to this that valuations are off with prices lowered. With the market in flux, it would follow that an analytically inclined team might wait until it settles before finalizing what could be its two biggest sales ever, and before it spends any of those funds in a chaotic market.

2) Johnson, Callens, and Tinnerholm are free agents. Not spending in this window could be preparation for retaining key players.

3) There is belief in current players. When Villa left and Heber was injured, Taty was given the chance to shine. The team may want to afford that opportunity to Magno, Thiago, etc.

4) Cushing is an interim coach. If the team is not 100 percent sold on him being with the team in 2023, they might hold off on obtaining players until they know these players fit the permanent manager's vision.

5) The window is still open.

6) The team is in second place in the East with a game in hand.

One's mileage may vary with any or all of the above, but since abandoning the aging stars model, it is hard to argue with the success rate of signed players, many of whom are young and ascending. It could be complacency after winning the Cup, or a belt tightening as we wait (endlessly) for a new stadium, but I, personally, cannot complain with the efforts made by a team that is in a salary capped league.

 

[Shwafta]

The loans for Sands and Taty we're typical of the market as a whole shifting to loans over traditional transfers. Add to this that valuations are off with prices lowered. With the market in flux, it would follow that an analytically inclined team might wait until it settles before finalizing what could be its two biggest sales ever, and before it spends any of those funds in a chaotic market.

One thing that makes me wonder then is how Slonina just went for a ridiculous some [for a goalkeeper], in that case...

 

[Kjbert]

Team is second in the East having had Taty all year. Our best player.

We’re not all in.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

One thing that makes me wonder then is how Slonina just went for a ridiculous some [for a goalkeeper], in that case...

Chelsea and age. Slonina is 18 vs. 22 (Sands) and 23 (Taty). Chelsea notoriously has an army of players that it loans every year, and has a new chief officer seeking to make a mark. Slonina might be worth it, but that is an exception, not a rule.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

Team is second in the East having had Taty all year. Our best player.

We’re not all in.

Fair. And I am fine with that. I'd rather be a consistent winner than erratic, especially in a capped league.

 

[SoupInNYC]

The loans for Sands and Taty we're typical of the market as a whole shifting to loans over traditional transfers. Add to this that valuations are off with prices lowered. With the market in flux, it would follow that an analytically inclined team might wait until it settles before finalizing what could be its two biggest sales ever, and before it spends any of those funds in a chaotic market.

I know it's wayyyyy early, but seeing what Taty has been able to do in his two preseason games thus far is exactly why NYCFC elected to loan him out instead of settling for a lower transfer fee.

 

[Antidote P. Smiley]

Haak is where Sands was in 2019 when Dome trusted him to start games. Sands was not a passer back then and was limited to playing safe passes square or back. very rarely was he breaking lines or making diagonal switches. that part of his game did not develop until end of 2020 and beginning of 2021. Haak needs time to firstly get used to the pace of MLS and then work on his vision. but I think he has the potential to get there. My point is that you can't compare Haak now with 2021 Sands. You have to compare Haak now with 2019 Sands and I think it's fairly comparable with the difference being Sands is more calm/sure on the ball, while Haak is more dynamic and agile.

If you are only talking development of a player sure you “can’t compare”version 1.0 v. 2.0.
I’m just stating the obvious that if Haak is going to be our option to cover for that role left by Sands leaving , as you say, Haak is not 2021 Sands. I like that people are really positive about Haak.