2024 Roster and Transfer Discussion Thread
- Thread starter JayH
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Carryover from a discussion in the Jovan thread but it probably fits better here. David Lee's record on transfer fees is abysmal and it's only being masked by academy players, holdovers from the Claudio days like Parks and Maxi, super draft picks like Jone and KOT and free transfers like Martinez that have outperformed expectations.
Since his arrival, Lee has spent over $48M in transfer fees and this is what we got from it:
First Choice Starters ($5.2M, 10.8% of spend)
Freese - $400K
Risa - $1M
Santi- ? (fee was never reported)
Thiago Martins - $3.8M
Consistent Backups/Occasional Start ($9M, 18.8%)
Illenic - $1M
Ojeda - $7M
Perea - $600K
Tanasijevic - $400K
Minimal production/appearances ($14.1M, 29.3%)
Mijatovic - $8.7M
Fernandez - $5M
Bakrar - $3M
Sold for profit ($5M, 10.4%)
Pereira - $5M (sold for $10M)
Left at a partial or total loss ($5.3M, 9%)
Thiago Andrade - $1.60M
Acevado - $2.3M
Malte Amundsen - $1.4M (transferred out for $400K GAM)
On Loan transfer fee TBD ($7.5M, 15.6%)
Talles Magno - $7.5M
To have only 10% of your transfer spend resulting in consistent starters after spending $48M in 4 years is a terrible track record in a salary-restricted league. You would be hard-pressed to find another MLS team that has gotten less out of the transfer money they spent. It's possible some of the young guys turn things around next season and things look better but right now its a complete failure.
Since his arrival, Lee has spent over $48M in transfer fees and this is what we got from it:
First Choice Starters ($5.2M, 10.8% of spend)
Freese - $400K
Risa - $1M
Santi- ? (fee was never reported)
Thiago Martins - $3.8M
Consistent Backups/Occasional Start ($9M, 18.8%)
Illenic - $1M
Ojeda - $7M
Perea - $600K
Tanasijevic - $400K
Minimal production/appearances ($14.1M, 29.3%)
Mijatovic - $8.7M
Fernandez - $5M
Bakrar - $3M
Sold for profit ($5M, 10.4%)
Pereira - $5M (sold for $10M)
Left at a partial or total loss ($5.3M, 9%)
Thiago Andrade - $1.60M
Acevado - $2.3M
Malte Amundsen - $1.4M (transferred out for $400K GAM)
On Loan transfer fee TBD ($7.5M, 15.6%)
Talles Magno - $7.5M
To have only 10% of your transfer spend resulting in consistent starters after spending $48M in 4 years is a terrible track record in a salary-restricted league. You would be hard-pressed to find another MLS team that has gotten less out of the transfer money they spent. It's possible some of the young guys turn things around next season and things look better but right now its a complete failure.
Brooklyn Blue
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NYCFC is a minor league team. The expenditures are understandable accepting that.
When the stadium opens I would expect the salary and squad model to change. Until that time, however, I expect two years of CFG stashing young players with high transfer fees.
If that reality frustrates one as a fan, I fully understand. There are many people that don’t want to invest time or money in a second level team. There is also a disconnect at times between the front office and the coach that frustrates me.
For the next few years I accept it for what it is, and it has made the season more enjoyable. I reserve the right, though, to adjust expectations in 2027.
The roster related questions chosen for last night's town hall were very open ended and generic, allowing Lee to cover any topic he wanted without even the charade of pretending to answer a question while modifying it to something more palatable.
The only somewhat substantive thing I noted was he confirmed he has built this roster with a view to keeping a core together for 3-5 years and they prioritized younger players so they would have more runway.
The only somewhat substantive thing I noted was he confirmed he has built this roster with a view to keeping a core together for 3-5 years and they prioritized younger players so they would have more runway.
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Not that it was any great prognostication, but I think I wrote something like this last summer or fall. Basically, what if we aren't being built to win in 23 or even 24. But the roster construction is designed to hit its stride in 25 and really compete in the 2 years of (a) World Cup and (b) new stadium. That would actually be really intelligent and strategic on the part of the FO. Depending on how they manage DP opportunities in the coming 12-24 months, it might even work out.
Given that this league is fundamentally unpredictable, I think I would consider it all a success if any of the following happens in the next 26 months:
- MLS Cup Final appearance
- Finish #1 in East
- Finish top 2 in Supporter Shield
- Win League's Cup
Same here. Although we'll take what we can get before then, of course.
How does that play out with a guy like Jovan or Ojeda for example, say they play to their $6-8m potential next season and look like the next coming of Taty. They will right fully want to go to Europe, how does that aid a 3-5 or year NYCFC plan other than some extra cash? If the don't reach their potentia then we lose the transfer fee we paid for them, and it's a waste either way I'm struggling to see how they fit the plan.
Will Santi be here? Will we still be relying on Maxi? What other moving parts will there be? Not sure this process makes a whole lot of sense in MLS.
I think it makes a lot more sense if you don’t look at the attack. What did 21 have that made the team excellent? Sands, Parks*, Callens, Tinnerholm*, Chanot, Johnson, and Maxi. Those players had considerable time to play together and gel. We had a consistent core of players. Now there are Sands, Parks, Martins, Gray, O’toole, Risa, and Santi. In my opinion, the floor is lower for these players than the 21 team and I think the team should attempt to bring in some better players to build the core. But right now these players are still learning to mesh and by 2026 or 2027, if most everyone is still here, there’s a good chance our midfield and defense could be one of the most solid in the league.
RunningWise
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You forgot about Haak. Can’t forget Haak
Right. He's grown into a beast. Perea is an outright animal, too. (I want to see as much of that guy as possible.) We opened the season getting knocked around like tenpins, but we sure as hell didn't close it that way.
This is a question for anybody, what results will make this process a success in 2026 and 2027?
For me, it starts with a top three in the Eastern Conference next season, top five in the Supporters Shield and a deep run for the MLS Cup, plus whatever other silverware we manage to pick up.
Assuming the structure of the league stays the same after that, top two in the Eastern Conference and top three in the Supporters Shield and an MLS Cup in 2026; top three in the Supporters Shield, an Eastern Conference title and an MLS Cup Final in 2027 (hopefully resulting in a win, but it's tough to repeat in a parity league).
ZYanksRule
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For me, our rebuild is successful if we get a top-2 finish in the conference and at least a trip to the conference final. Those are lofty goals, but they are attainable based on the results we received with our previous core.
Why do we need a 4 year rebuild? Lots of MLS teams go from out of the playoffs to a contender in a single year with a few smart signings. 5 of our current starters were on the championship team (Sands, Gray, Parks, Maxi, Santi). Martins and O'toole have been here since the season after the title. So its not like we lost our entire core at some point. This is getting dragged out over multiple seasons because we keep making bad player signings and having to start over again. We wasted a year trying to make Magno a ST with no backup plan. We wasted 2 seasons on Thiago and Gabby as our plan on the wings only to have to start over there for various reasons. Now we are projecting that it's some kind of slow build because 3-4 young guys on the roster that have all under performed are going to magically be better next season?
What part of the post-Taty era indicates that this is all some savvy re-build plan? We have a lot more evidence of David Lee doing a poor job picking players than we do of him being some master roster re-builder.
What part of the post-Taty era indicates that this is all some savvy re-build plan? We have a lot more evidence of David Lee doing a poor job picking players than we do of him being some master roster re-builder.
ZYanksRule
Registered
I don't think it's a slow build. I think last year was the rebuild year. This year we should have been better than 6th. Next year I expect us to be right near the top of the East again.
I would argue that it's all "David Lee doing a poor job picking players." I think we have good players who didn't reach their full potential under a coach who hasn't done a good enough job developing those players.
Beat me to it. I was just about to write that.
As it is, I think we're going to be a dangerous team in the playoffs this year. We probably lack the experience and clinical finishing quality to go all the way, but you never know.
And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say it again: had Malachi not gone down, we'd already be a team no one wants to play. We'd be stretching defenses like Play-Do.
You don’t use playoff progression year over year as a benchmark. This team won 1 playoff round in 6 years then won 4 rounds in 2021. Playoffs are random. There is no progression except by accident.
You also don’t build to get 50 points then 53 then 57 then 60. You aim for 55+ every year. The Cup year was part of 7 year run averaging 56 points annually after you adjust Covid year to 34 games. The year we won was the lowest point total in the run (but also the second best goal differential). Soccer is fairly random even over 34 games.
But playoffs are especially random and you can’t expect to peak in all three of squad quality, season results, and playoff advancement at the same time. You should want to get good as soon as possible in a way that allows you to sustain to give yourself a near decade of good teams you hope has the good playoff fortune to win at least one cup if you’re lucky. NYCFC signed team veterans Callens Johnson and Ring to 4 year extension contracts after already banking 54, 57 and 56 point seasons because they wanted to keep the run going. Planning to peak 3 years out is planing to fail the next 2 years.
You also don’t build to get 50 points then 53 then 57 then 60. You aim for 55+ every year. The Cup year was part of 7 year run averaging 56 points annually after you adjust Covid year to 34 games. The year we won was the lowest point total in the run (but also the second best goal differential). Soccer is fairly random even over 34 games.
But playoffs are especially random and you can’t expect to peak in all three of squad quality, season results, and playoff advancement at the same time. You should want to get good as soon as possible in a way that allows you to sustain to give yourself a near decade of good teams you hope has the good playoff fortune to win at least one cup if you’re lucky. NYCFC signed team veterans Callens Johnson and Ring to 4 year extension contracts after already banking 54, 57 and 56 point seasons because they wanted to keep the run going. Planning to peak 3 years out is planing to fail the next 2 years.
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